How to deal with unreasonable clients?

[fotomagicstudios]

Hello Everyone,

I recently did an engagement shoot with a soon to be bride and groom. We had discussed in detail of what they wanted and where the shoot was going to take place. I originally quoted them a quote of $500 US Dollars and they said it was too much so after negotiation we agreed up on $350 dollars for a couple of hours of work.

The engagement shoot went well however, I ended up spending more time than that was agreed upon (spent an additional 4 hours). I reviewed the pics and was happy with the results. I rendered low res jpeg files with my watermark and asked them to review the pics and tell me the ones they wanted.

Here was our original contract:

1) $350 dollars for engagement shoot in SF
2) Client will choose 16 pictures that will be edited and given to them for their own use.
- editing via photoshop, smoothing the skin, popping the colors, making them print ready.
3) Rest of the pictures will be kept by the photographer.


Everything was fine until they saw the pics. They ended up choosing more than 16 and wanted another 20; for a total of 32 pics. I said "that is not part of the original deal. we agreed upon 16 for $350". The main problem started here. They wanted me to give them all the pics but I told them I dont do that (which I had already mentioned previously to them). They didnt want me to edit the other 20, they just wanted them.

At this point they got mad and told me that I was "ripping them off" and they would also cancel the wedding shoot deal. I explained to them, that this was a fashion style photoshoot and we had agreed that they would only get the ones they selected (16 only). After hearing them complain for another 15-20 mins I agreed I would give them the other 20 pictures only if they signed the agreement stating they would not release the pictures online (as they have not been edited for print etc) They can keep them in their personal use in a photo album and all. I was so frustrated that I was about to tell them "I am cancelling our contract. I will not cash the check" but I didnt.

As for the wedding shoot I am going to make them sign an agreement and clearly state what they will get. Even though I did that with them for the shoot they still acted this way. I have a business to run and I dont want people bad mouthing the business because the client wants more than what they paid for.

My questions to you are:

1) After doing a shoot, how do you share your pictures with the client? I keep on running into the issue where the client sees all the pics and wants more than what they paid for. Its a great way to make money however sometimes its just a pain with some clients.

2) Some photographers are ok with giving all the files out, others are not. I am in the latter category because the equipment I use cost money and I spend quality time on each photograph. Even though I mentioned to the client they would not get all the pics they still insisted. How do I make the customer understand this philosophy?

3) How do you deal with such clients?

Sincerely,

Your Fellow Photographer & Colleague
FotoMagic Studios

[zona5101]

Next time/contract have a stated rate for any images in addition to the number stated in the contract. Price them so it will encourage them to stay within the agreed to number but doesn't limit your sales if they have to have more.

[Jim Bryant]

I have to agree with Zona, next time you get to get everything in a contract, then you can up the price for extra views. As for the wedding, get a 50% deposit upfront!

[ceremus]

Although I haven't done work for fee, it seems like you offered a package which was agreed upon by contract and you wholly fulfilled your obligation. If they wanted images not included in the package I would say you can offer them, but at a la carte pricing ($$$).

Ultimately this is your call, but I'm of the opinion that when you get the clients who will attempt to squeeze every last drop of blood out of you while paying you pennies, you kick those clients to the curb as fast as you are able. They're not the clients you want nor the kind of customers you need.

[Rentham]

Originally Posted by fotomagicstudios

1) After doing a shoot, how do you share your pictures with the client? I keep on running into the issue where the client sees all the pics and wants more than what they paid for. Its a great way to make money however sometimes its just a pain with some clients.

For these kinds of assignments I upload a proof gallery to my website for the client to review and select their finals. I offer a DVD of all the proof images for an additional (relatively significant) fee. I try to keep my edits fairly tight so I never upload so many proofs that it would overwhelm my efforts to deliver the entire set should the client purchase them.

I never deliver or otherwise release unedited photos, and I communicate this policy to the client long before we start shooting. If you are running into trouble like this on a regular basis you might want to review your communication and consult strategies. There might be room for clarification or improvement there. I tend to over-communicate the framework and terms of my assignments with the client. It avoids a lot of headaches down the road.

You're in a tough situation because you have to balance making the client happy with sticking to your contractual guns. Unfortunately a small percentage of clients (and people in general) will push the boundaries just to see if they can break you. Best of luck.

[PrototypeImagery]

Stick to the agree upon contract. At all cost do not falter or waiver from that. It can get frustrating but you have to value your business contract more than the money you will be getting from the jobs.

It sounds like they have found your button to push and they are going to keep pressing it to get what they want. If you have drawn up a detailed contract stating what they receive and how you will be compensated along with both parties signing than you are/will be honoring your end of the deal.

[autofocus]

"I am canceling our contract. I will not cash the check" but I didnt.

I would have done that. You made it very clear to them upfront to what the terms were. The customer is always right, but not to the point that they'll take advantage of you. Did they sign the agreement?

As for the wedding shoot I am going to make them sign an agreement and clearly state what they will get. Even though I did that with them for the shoot they still acted this way. I have a business to run and I dont want people bad mouthing the business because the client wants more than what they paid for

. Not to sound like one that could afford to do this, but I would tell them to find another photographer for their wedding. You really don't need customers like this.

My questions to you are:

1) After doing a shoot, how do you share your pictures with the client? I keep on running into the issue where the client sees all the pics and wants more than what they paid for. Its a great way to make money however sometimes its just a pain with some clients.

We charge a session fee (varies depending on the venue) and all additional prints/enlargements are on an ala carte basis. So, this eliminates the conditions up front that they'd only get a set number of prints.

2) Some photographers are ok with giving all the files out, others are not. I am in the latter category because the equipment I use cost money and I spend quality time on each photograph. Even though I mentioned to the client they would not get all the pics they still insisted. How do I make the customer understand this philosophy?

Change your pricing model to something more like I suggested above...or, like Bruce said above, make it very clear in your agreement what the price would be for any additional prints...and stick to it.

[Biomech]

Just my 2p worth, but I get the feeling that because you crumbled on the price AND then crumbled on the amount of pics.... they are going to push hard when it gets to the wedding.

They went from a $500 shoot (16pics?) to $350 and 36 pics :P AND you shot for an extra 4 hours!

Let's not forget that $350 is pretty cheap! I have a wedding shoot in December and I'm happy to over shoot for them at no extra charge, I'm kind of planning on it. It's one of my £300 ($470) wedding packages.... which people berated me on for being so low end, cheap and ruining photography for the pros! lol .... for £300 they get me for 2 hours - that's £150 / $235 per hour - who's low end now beraters!?!? They are actually paying me for additional hours too.

In total, they are paying £380 for 3 hours, one 9x6 print and 20 PP'd photos on disc. That's... $600.

Anyway, I digress. Maybe review your pricing but more importantly stick to your guns people are far more willing to pay for a service from someone with a backbone and faith in their product.

[terri33inne]

I had that come up recently... I was hired to do a group session. My contract states after the session they'll receive 20-30 edited proofs to make their selections. Did it... delivered the edited proofs via my website all was good. Then a few weeks later I got an e-mail from the woman who had coordinated the whole thing, and she wanted to get all the photos from that day as she wanted to make a scrapbook including the photos w/ eyes closed, weird expressions, etc. So, after reading this article I asked how many more proofs she wanted, and she said she'd like to get to 50 (I originally delivered 28 proofs), so I e-mailed her back that I don't release un-edited files, and to get to 50 it would be another 20+ proofs which is like editing another entire session, and my fee for that was X. She e-mailed me back said no problem... I sent her an invoice, she paid it, I delivered the proofs, and everyone was happy.

Gaining an understanding of this has released me from so much stress, and angst... I made money for the additional time, and she was happy to have the additional proofs.

[MindyRaeL]

Originally Posted by fotomagicstudios

1) After doing a shoot, how do you share your pictures with the client? I keep on running into the issue where the client sees all the pics and wants more than what they paid for. Its a great way to make money however sometimes its just a pain with some clients.

I'll start off by saying that I'm not actively running a business, but I've done paid shoots for friends and people who have sought me out. And I'll openly admit that I totally stole this idea from Niresangwa, because well, it's awesome and it works.

I don't offer proofs. Ever. The client and I agree on a certain number of images and that number is stated clearly in the contract. I do the shoot, pick out the photos that I think are the best and edit them the way I think they look the best, and deliver the CD to the clients. And then we're done.
This way, clients don't have the agonizing decision of what photos to choose, and I don't have to fight with them about requesting more than the contract states. And the biggest benefit, IMO, is that I have creative control over the process. I make sure the client understands what they're getting before they sign the contract, and I haven't had any complaints thus far. For me, it really is the no-headache solution.
Here is the thread where this idea is discussed a little more in-depth.