What’s Your Preference?

missoliel · #1 (**permalink**) 10-03-2011, 09:58 AM

Hi everyone,

I'll try and keep this short and sweet. A keen newbie here.

Okay; the situation is that I've been involved in photographics for 5+ years. I've worked in multiple photo-labs and shot in my own time, always for fun. The last 6+ months have seen me take a big turn in my career. I've always been creative but it's finally sunk in with me into which field I feel I belong. That is, photography.

Earlier this year, I started to take it much more seriously. I'm enrolled in a Diploma. It's weird because I'm not really sure where I stand in terms of experience. I feel like I've been doing this for years yet it's only recently that I feel like I understand it better and I'm more enthusiastic and ready for it.

I started to offer doing free baby shoots for friends and I've had positive results. However, when you're getting something for free, who isn't going to love it?

You can see my work here, for evaluation sake: eq.photography | Facebook

Bottom line; I have a few people who are interested in baby shoots from WOM alone, and through my FB page. I want to keep it up. But I'm not sure how long I should be shooting for free for; more shooting equals more experience which I'm happy to take as payment. But I don't want to establish myself as a cheapo before my entire business even gets off the ground and before I graduate.

Not really sure what my question is, I just realised, haha!

Maybe moreso, I just want some idea of 'should I be charging' or is it cool to keep cruising on doing free shoots in exchange for portfolio work and experience? Hmmm.

I shoot with a Nikon D7000, AF-S DX Micro Nikkor 85mm F3.5G VR, AF-S 35mm F1.8G DX, AF-S DX 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR and I have lighting gear, the Elinchrom D-Lite It 4 kit.

Thoughts?

Biomech · #2 (**permalink**) 10-03-2011, 11:27 AM

Hi, you have some really nice photos

I would say though, watch the focal point - aim for the eyes.
Personally, I think charging would be the next step.

I love this one:

missoliel · #3 (**permalink**) 10-03-2011, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biomech

Hi, you have some really nice photos

I would say though, watch the focal point - aim for the eyes.]

Hi Biomech,

Thank you for the response/feedback; I certainly agree with you about the focal point! It's definitely been an issue with me that I've been trying to get a handle on. Hopefully, it will continue to improve, now that I know where I'm focusing.

I appreciate your input!

andyw · #4 (**permalink**) 10-03-2011, 11:53 AM

My opinion is and always has been that if people are asking you to do the shots then they pay.

What they pay is entirely upto you.
Personally I say charge a "proper" rate, but what "proper" is depends entirely on you and your costs, skills, profit required etc.

At the barest minimum you charge cost plus a percentage.

You have some good shots there (not a fan of the flowery props but that is just me) and you can virtually guarantee sales if you have good shots of the little darlings.

If you are planning to do this as a business then start out as you mean to go on by getting everything sorted out regarding rates, packages, printing etc.

No one can actually say what rate you should be charging as there are too many variables but if you want an idea then canvas some of the local snappers and find out what sort of rates they are charging for similar types of work and work out your rates from there.

missoliel · #5 (**permalink**) 10-04-2011, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyw

No one can actually say what rate you should be charging as there are too many variables but if you want an idea then canvas some of the local snappers and find out what sort of rates they are charging for similar types of work and work out your rates from there.

Thanks for your input, andyw. It looks like I'll start spending some time scouting the field and see what prices I can come up with in comparison! Many thanks for your advice!

andyw · #6 (**permalink**) 10-04-2011, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missoliel

Thanks for your input, andyw. It looks like I'll start spending some time scouting the field and see what prices I can come up with in comparison! Many thanks for your advice!

Hellllllpppppp, you are the second person to say thanks for the advice

I am going to have to change my tag from Grumpy to Helpful soon

Seriously though, pricing is always going to be an issue for someone starting out.
If you are doing it part time, as a secondary income or "just for a few bucks here and there" then a lot of the (normal) ways of setting pricing will not necessarily be of help, (i.e. the cost of doing business method) although it should still be used to a point

If it was me, I would be checking the "competition" and if the mid or average point fell within what I thought was about right and fit in with my costs/requirements then I would start there rather than pitching my prices at or below the lowest point.

If you want to use the COB route to get an idea then a starting point is this calculator.
https://www.nppa.org/professional_de...db/cdbcalc.cfm

The only other thing I would strongly advocate is that everyone should be charging a sitting or session fee and that should be enough to cover a minimum hourly rate for the whole session plus a couple of hours.
This covers you for the times (hopefully few) when people don't actually end up buying any prints/files.

I will qualify all the above by saying that I am not a portrait or wedding snapper. My work is done on day rates and licensing but I know enough and have helped out enough people in that field to have at least an idea of things.

tks

missoliel · #7 (**permalink**) 10-05-2011, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyw

Hellllllpppppp, you are the second person to say thanks for the advice

I am going to have to change my tag from Grumpy to Helpful soon

Thanks again for your advice. Ooops. There, I said it! Haha, but in all seriousness, I really do appreciate your help. This forum is really cool; people are approachable for help and that's what a forum should be about. I've been a part of another one recently and let me tell you, I didn't hang around there long.

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyw

Seriously though, pricing is always going to be an issue for someone starting out. If you are doing it part time, as a secondary income or "just for a few bucks here and there" then a lot of the (normal) ways of setting pricing will not necessarily be of help, (i.e. the cost of doing business method) although it should still be used to a point

If it was me, I would be checking the "competition" and if the mid or average point fell within what I thought was about right and fit in with my costs/requirements then I would start there rather than pitching my prices at or below the lowest point.

If you want to use the COB route to get an idea then a starting point is this calculator.
https://www.nppa.org/professional_de...db/cdbcalc.cfm

The only other thing I would strongly advocate is that everyone should be charging a sitting or session fee and that should be enough to cover a minimum hourly rate for the whole session plus a couple of hours.
This covers you for the times (hopefully few) when people don't actually end up buying any prints/files.

I will qualify all the above by saying that I am not a portrait or wedding snapper. My work is done on day rates and licensing but I know enough and have helped out enough people in that field to have at least an idea of things.

tks

This is sound advice. I watched a great video last night which talked about starting from the COB point, and working from there. It does make sense to me as I want this to be more than just a fledgling income (and business, for that matter). I'm not quitting my day job any time soon though, as I know I'll need the solid income for quite some time into the future.

Thanks for the link to that calculator. Would you have any books you would recommend for small business practices, particularly focusing on the photography field? I will be sure to do an Amazon on it and a Book Depository, but I always like to also read books referred my WOM too.

Cheers.

Dinomitiya · #8 (**permalink**) 10-05-2011, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biomech

Hi, you have some really nice photos

I would say though, watch the focal point - aim for the eyes.
Personally, I think charging would be the next step.

I love this one:

This is such a nice scene and I really liked it.. Even minute details were captured in it... I hope that I would see more shots too..

andyw · #9 (**permalink**) 10-05-2011, 09:27 AM

I can't recommend any decent books as I don't actually know what ones are around on the subject these days although I am sure there a quite a few.

My route into the business was a lot different, also it was in the 80's and things were very different "way back" then.
I started out doing a mixture of press and commercial stuff around the ex-pat communities of Brussels and Frankfurt.
Believe it or not the first stuff I sold and had published were done with a crappy 110 instamatic camera

Although I have done portraits in the past it has never been a big part of my work and has never been something that I really wanted to do full time.

One thing that did and still does help me though is attending trade shows and some of the many seminars that there are around.
I find they are good for both those considering getting into the business as well as us old lags.You get to meet and chat to your peers and keep upto date on the latest trends in various different areas of the business.

These days there are a load of decent blogs around which I still find helpful and there are some good forums around with some good people on them.

The abuse to "newbies" tends to come about because there are an awful lot of people who seem to believe that just having a decent camera makes you a "pro" and who don't or won't listen to those who have been around for a while.

As you quite obviously realise, that is not the case and you have to approach things properly if you want to succeed.
All I can really say is keep up the research and when YOU believe you are ready then go for it. Don't expect miracles and most certainly don't get disheartened if you are not rich in the first 6 months because believe me that won't happen.

Good luck.