Rookie Mistake

[vertigone]

Hi,

This is my first post, though I have been reading along and learning from these forums for a while.

I was wondering if someone could advise me on something.

A while back, a friend of mine recommended me to a friend of hers to do some short notice real estate photography for an agency in NYC. We agreed on a day rate of $400 to produce 8-10 images. I worked the day, got the shots, did the editing and gave them the images. The client was happy with them and told me to submit the invoice.

I did, but after 30 days, heard nothing. I sent a reminder, and nothing. You see where I'm going with this. Several more attempts to acquire payment failed and all of my attempts to contact them were ignored. Still, 7 of the shots appear on their website to this day, and also on their facebook page. What should I do? A cease and desist may succeed in getting the shots off the website, but will not help in getting paid.

PS - I know I should have insisted on at least some of the payment up front, but felt since it was a friend of a friend (who I've met before) that it wasn't necessary. Lesson learned.

Anybody have any experience with this type of situation, and what recourse do I have?

Thanks.

[BigFuzzy]

Have any of your contact efforts included the threat of legal action?
You should if not.
I would also be screenshoting all their pages that have your unpaid for images on them.

Did you have a contract up front?

[andyw]

First, did you have a contract/usage license and were your terms and conditions included with the invoice?

On the t&c's you should have something along the lines of.
payment must be received prior to any usage of the images.
If images are used prior to payment being received this will be considered a violation and necessary action can and will be taken.

Or words to that effect.

Anyway, whether you do or not have any of the above.,
Contact them immediately, TELL them to remove the images, TELL them to pay you immediately or you will take action for the unpaid invoice and a violation of copyright etc etc.
You then re-invoice them with a penalty for the unauthorised usage.
If that is not paid then you contact a lawyer and sue them for the initial payment and for the copyright violation/unauthorised usage.

Friend of a friend or not, you have to take the necessary steps.

[lainetorres]

I am now taking my baby steps into becoming a Pro.

I had 2 jobs I got paid for. The first one being for a good friend, reduced rate and no contract - just fun for my portfolio. All went well - she paid a small fee even before the shooting.

My second job was for a coworker who kept blowing off the contract and the "retainer" (I require 50% up front to book your date). Since I see her everyday, even though I stressed out, I did not let it get the best of me. First I e-mailed the contract. She "booked" the date but didn't sign it or pay the retainer. Then I printed the contract and went to her with the pricing included. Finally, on the day before, she seemed ready to sign it, but did not put any money down. I still kept a smile and went over on the date and took the shots. After the shots were done, she paid me the full amount but I have not yet provided her with the images. All is well and I'm waiting for her to pick the shots that are included in her package. She can select them online, which drives traffic to my site and where they are explicitly protected and cannot be copied.

I have another job coming up this next weekend - a wedding. But I also protected myself with the contract (and it covers licensing, model release, payment, all I could think of) and have received full payment (which I also require 30 days prior to the event, specially for weddings because those bills rank up and you do not want to be in the same pool as the caterer or the DJ to collect payment!). I'm even willing to wait for payment in case of someone I know, but no way would I ever hand the pictures without a watermark or full payment, friend or not. Only the images on the disc can be printed and only if a copy of the copyrights release is presented.

In the end, what I recommend, being a rookie myself, is to be prepared. Have the documents (there are tons of free samples online) you need. I currently work with a Photography Agreement signed by both parties and a Document for Copyrights Release which require the ID of the client and has all my contact info. In case you ever need to go to court, when you have someone's signature down on an agreement, they MUST abide.

Good Luck!

Laine

[ChrisAdval]

Originally Posted by vertigone

Hi,

This is my first post, though I have been reading along and learning from these forums for a while.

I was wondering if someone could advise me on something.

A while back, a friend of mine recommended me to a friend of hers to do some short notice real estate photography for an agency in NYC. We agreed on a day rate of $400 to produce 8-10 images. I worked the day, got the shots, did the editing and gave them the images. The client was happy with them and told me to submit the invoice.

I did, but after 30 days, heard nothing. I sent a reminder, and nothing. You see where I'm going with this. Several more attempts to acquire payment failed and all of my attempts to contact them were ignored. Still, 7 of the shots appear on their website to this day, and also on their facebook page. What should I do? A cease and desist may succeed in getting the shots off the website, but will not help in getting paid.

PS - I know I should have insisted on at least some of the payment up front, but felt since it was a friend of a friend (who I've met before) that it wasn't necessary. Lesson learned.

Anybody have any experience with this type of situation, and what recourse do I have?

Thanks.

Did you sign any paper work they had for you?
If not, then good, if they did then it’s likely they would have in the contrast you sold all rights once they receive any finalized photos... in the future I do recommend not giving any finalized photos until you've received at least 50% of the costs if you want to be safe with first time clients, and if it’s of course big name brand companies and it’s impossible to hide from you then it’s unnecessary really to get upfront costs because they would have a ton to lose.

Did you send the photos to the U.S. copyright office (if you're in the U.S.)?
if not, and if you're in the U.S. I would submit those photos to the U.S. copyright office via online and you would have a huge advantage in any legal actions taken against them... I would always submit any photos I send to clients to the U.S. Copyright Office asap, if its personal/portfolio/trade work then eh, not too big of a deal if any issues with copyrights I would submit it once I see suspicion of copyright infringement.

I agree with BigFuzzy, get screenshots of your screen with time/date included from your desktop.

[vertigone]

Thank you for the replies.

To answer your questions, there was no contract in place (i know, i know...). I do have screen shots of my pictures on both their website and their facebook page.

When re-submitting the invoice with a penalty, is a $200 penalty reasonable? I will also mention possible legal action, but of course I must then be prepared to follow through on that. Is retaining a lawyer for that type of lawsuit costly? My google searches have been fruitless. Has anyone here sued for copyright infringement before?

Thanks again,

V

[graciousness]

I don't think you would be suing them for copyright infringement, but more for unpaid debt. Have a look at the link below and see if it's any help with your debt collecting.

http://www.microsoft.com/business/en...id=NKFU8m_mv-I

Have you told your friend who did the recommendation about it? She should help you contact them to collect, I think it would only be fair.

I think you need to advice them that if they do not pay within xx days, that would be reporting them for unpaid debt to the State credit bureau and this will reflect their credit rating. Morever, failure to pay the invoice will also force you to take legal action. Immediate removal of the photos on the XX website must be done immediately until such time that the invoice is paid; until such time, you hold the right to the photographs and will not release permission for such publication and use. Etc. etc.

This is straight business debt collection. Unfortunate you have to deal with it, but this is where it's really important to draw contracts for any jobs you do.

Hope this helps.

[Jim Bryant]

Tell them that since they have refused to pay, you still retain copyright and will sue the shit out of them for copyright infringements or keep sending in bill with credit card interest 13 to 17% charges for unpaid balance.

[gturner]

yep, this is a unpaid debt issue before anything else.
you should be able to access a small claims court without the need for a lawyer, just check with your local courthouse.

It is NOT a rookie mistake to not get paid. It happens to all businesses all the time. I suspect they are going to treat you as nuisance value until you ut them under real pressure.

Just take them to small claims court. It's cheap, and your case should be a slam dunk.