Dealing with competitive undercutting

[rcooper102]

Hey, so I am trying to get into more professional work and I was recently quoting on a job to shoot some products and got absolutely destroyed by lower quotes. The job was to photograph 800 products and my competitors were quoting less than $200 US for the work. I just don't understand how people can possibly do it for such a low price?

If they are able to photograph 60 products per hour (or 1 product per minute) they are only earning $15/hour and that is without taking into account any costs of doing business. And there is absolutely no way they can reasonably shoot 60 products an hour and deliver any sort of quality.

Is it just that I am going up against kids with a point and shoot and just don't know any better or am I being unreasonable? How do you guys handle it when people undercut you so much that there is no way you can justify accepting the job?

[jcspenny]

Like you, I'm trying to get into more professional work, so I'm not speaking from experience. But the way I see it, if the "competition" is grossly under charging then at least one of two things is likely to happen.

1) The people hiring the photographer will realize that they got what they paid for and will know better for next time (or will have to hire another photographer for a reshoot).

2) The photographers who charge too little will soon realize how much money actually goes into photography and will either raise their prices or go out of business.

I may be way off. Like I said, this is just my opinion and I haven't observed any of my local competition (most of whom are the kind that charge $100 for a disk of the entire session) long enough to know if I'm right, but this is how I see it happening.

[andyw]

Originally Posted by rcooper102

Hey, so I am trying to get into more professional work and I was recently quoting on a job to shoot some products and got absolutely destroyed by lower quotes. The job was to photograph 800 products and my competitors were quoting less than $200 US for the work. I just don't understand how people can possibly do it for such a low price?

If they are able to photograph 60 products per hour (or 1 product per minute) they are only earning $15/hour and that is without taking into account any costs of doing business. And there is absolutely no way they can reasonably shoot 60 products an hour and deliver any sort of quality.

Is it just that I am going up against kids with a point and shoot and just don't know any better or am I being unreasonable? How do you guys handle it when people undercut you so much that there is no way you can justify accepting the job?

I get that quite a lot and then raise the price of the initial quote when the client comes back in a months time to have the shots redone because the "other guy" screwed it up.
Either through not realising what was involved (time, skill and equipment) and ending up either totally messing up the shoot in the first place or, as has happened a couple of times, when the "other guy" ended up doing a runner when they realised what they had actually let themselves in for and could not complete the work on schedule (mostly because they could only do it in the evening or weekend).

[DanaLane]

You just have to remember that you can't compete on price. You'll have to earn the work though being that much better. There will always be someone willing to do the work for pennies to "get their foot in the door". While, like a previous poster said, they probably won't be in business for long, there will always be another one.

If someone is shopping on price alone, you have to just say to yourself that they're not your client. Good luck, it's not easy!

[3bayjunkie]

If they are charging that little then they obviously aren't doing it for a primary income because they would never make enough money to live off of. My rule for myself is to charge what i think my time is worth. People who appreciate your style of shooting will pay a rediculous amount to get what they want. Some people just don't appreciate art and will pay the lowest bidder.

[litenphrame]

I run my own business and have learned, so far, that a reasonable price matched with exceptional results will keep you in business. Sometimes, clients will lie to get a deal. If the quote is genuine then just back away and realize that you just can't justify a price so low. It happens in every business and there is no way around it, but those with reasonable prices and quality work will remain.

[Jim Bryant]

Originally Posted by andyw

I get that quite a lot and then raise the price of the initial quote when the client comes back in a months time to have the shots redone because the "other guy" screwed it up.
Either through not realising what was involved (time, skill and equipment) and ending up either totally messing up the shoot in the first place or, as has happened a couple of times, when the "other guy" ended up doing a runner when they realised what they had actually let themselves in for and could not complete the work on schedule (mostly because they could only do it in the evening or weekend).

This is true with me as well. Buyes/art directors are always trying to save money by going under budget these days. Quality doesn't matter to them if it just used for web purposes only.
Why do they charge low..most weekend warriors already have a full-time job and look to make beer change on the side, which is hurting the professional market.

It they want to make less than $10.00 an hour, they won't be in business long. My motto.......work smarter, not longer.

[mokka]

Originally Posted by litenphrame

I run my own business and have learned, so far, that a reasonable price matched with exceptional results will keep you in business.

We should put that on a poster.

If you ever have to explain to a client why they would be better off hiring you than one of these 'weekend warriors' then you can just point out that when they aren't taking photographs they're at their full-time job. When you aren't taking photographs you're improving your skills and getting to know your clients. Also they may have a good portfolio, but anyone can make a good portfolio, it doesn't mean they can always deliver excellent results. The skills you need to be a true full-time professional are the adaptability to shoot anything the client asks you to and inspiration on tap.

[NathanFranke]

I heard a "business guru" speak once, and he said "The taste of good quality lasts longer than the taste of good price." Charge what you think you're worth, but be competitive. If the noob that they hire does crap work, they'll be in the market again real soon.

[Biomech]

I've just had another competitor come on the scene, they are charging £250 for what I charge £595. I know for a fact that the main piece of kit they have cost them £12,000, add on staff, consumables, insurance etc plus travel expenses and I know they won't be in business long. I spend about £150 odd on a job in expenses! That's fine, but like a few have said, there will always be someone else to take their place.

In my many years of retail I have discovered that the undercutters go out of business, the people with honesty and value do actually stay in business. So try to beat your undercutters with value.

My package is all inclusive, unique, professional, award winning and I have a multitude of insurance. Those few things make me better than my competitor straight away