just starting......

[fallia]

I've been doing research on fees. I have reviewed fee proposals from architects regarding architectural photography and speaking with marketing heads of architecture firms. Being at the shallow end of the pool i can charge around $300 to $500 dollars per shot. I am going to set up my contracts to reflect that. I will either have them define how many shots they require or just gamble and go shoot the buildings and figure they will like a few (for starters) and cover expenses and a small profit. There seems to be a variety of ways to charge for the rights of the photos through time. I assume they are proportionally related to the original cost of the price i would charge per shot. I need to get a handle on that and be very upfront about it before i agree to shoot. I am setting up a Excell spreadsheet to list all estimated expenses to go along with a scope of work agreement.

I have just sent in my photobook to adorama to be printed and circulated to several firms and to magazines for editorial work. From asking around it seems the $300 dollar per shot is common there as well (editorial work). I have an recently gotten an offer to shoot for an add agency. I assume the way to handle that is give them a daily rate (unless they know exactly how many and what kind of shots they want)

What i want to be most carefully with and have no idea how to value realistically are the rights to the images

My goal is to get out of the shallow end of the pond quickly.

[JFSanders]

Sorry, day rate will drown you in less water on a foggy window. Do not work for day rate unless you are down to eating your camera and then I would clean toilets before then.

GET THIS BOOK! IT MAY JUST SAVE YOUR CAREER!

Jim

[3bayjunkie]

Are you using Large format or Medium format for these prints?

[fallia]

DSLR...i will rent lenses...i will move to a medium format (may rent as well, not sure)....i know the 4x5 is the traditional architectural photography format but i know allot of architects that are fine with DSLR pics for posts on websites and some publications....i do want one (looking at linhof digitals) but can't afford right now

[fallia]

what's the issue with charging a day rate?...it bothered me in that it seemed open ended....as an example i could see shooting for a developer, maybe they want a few restaurants and retail spaces (interior and exterior) photographed inside the development but they just can't commit to how many. I show up and shoot and take several ( say 15 shots) that they like. I sell them for the day rate and feel like i loose money (correctly or not) because i would have gotten a bigger payday @ $300 per shot (assuming about $1500/day).

how do you guys work your buying of copyright. my friends here seem to charge annually or offer unlimited ownership for a high dollar value (i hate people that submarine others, that is work too cheap, give work away)

[3bayjunkie]

the reason I was asking if you were using large format or medium format is because you are charging so much for a single photo? why would someone pay $300 for you to take one photo? Shoot i'll take a picture of someones business if they want to pay me even $50!!!

[BK553]

Originally Posted by 3bayjunkie

the reason I was asking if you were using large format or medium format is because you are charging so much for a single photo? why would someone pay $300 for you to take one photo? Shoot i'll take a picture of someones business if they want to pay me even $50!!!

And THIS is why it's getting harder and harder to make a living in this business. Competition is good, but compete by offering better quality, not lower price. You should be thinking "I can take much better pictures at $300" not "I can take similar but not quite as good pictures for 1/6th the cost'

Honestly though, if he can get $300 a shot for photos taken with a DSLR (I hope you're at least using a tilt-shift), good for him.

[3bayjunkie]

yeah this is what I am wondering. I can understand if you have a Large format camera made for achitecture photography. But if you are just using a normal DSLR what are they paying for? I am not trying to be rude, I just want to understand what the big deal is about one photo for it to cost $300.

[fallia]

havent done it yet....but about to....the guys i'm talking to are use to paying $300 to $500 a shot....thats the low end of the range...i have a few photographer friends that will do some editorial work (their bread and butter is product shot stuff) and will do a small road trip for $300 a shot (ballparking an estimated amount of photographs before trip) they have been able to make $1500 for a day trip

tilt shift definitely (have already rented and practiced) (getting lightroom today!!!!! half off adorama )maybe just a really nice wide angle for interiors (no lights)....and they have seen my "not" full format shots and are ok with it (plan on renting full frame though...looking at 4x5's to rent as well... i'm hesitant to get started without more practice with lighting

i do think the low balling hurts....i use to work for an architecture firm and knew several photographers in town, they couldn't get a decent pay day in town because there was one guy that would shoot for $100-$200 bucks a shot (actually he was good and had his own 4x5) ...they could quickly run out of town and get a good payday with simple shots for developers (that weren't looking for much)

the guys (publishers i've done work for and photographers) i'm talking to $300 is the low end of the spectrum

[JFSanders]

If you are going to do this professionally and you want to feed, clothe, house and save for your eventual retirement (Don't kid yourself about any kind of govt support) then you had best make sure you are charging enough per image to get the profit margin you need to make those investments in your life to be able to cover those expenses. You do not take gross receipts to the bank, you take margin. No margin, no career.

You have a limited lifespan to produce these images so if you give away or lose money for the first third of your productive lifespan you will never be able to make it up on the back end. Because you will have priced yourself out of the lucrative end of the market.

License is the term. DO NOT USE the word copyright unless you are referring to that which is out of the reach of all but the wealthiest companies and individuals. You would license an image based on the supposed life span of the image and the expected exposure. So if you produce an image that will run for one year in a major billboard and ad campaign in a broad spectrum of magazines with circulations in the 3 to 500K range the ad buyer will have a budget of 2 to 6 million dollars. Your image will be front and center of this ad campaign and as such a one year license for that image may well be on the order of 50K or more.

So when you say how much to charge or just go with a day rate you really are short changing yourself to the point of making what should be a rewarding and enjoyable craft into drudgery that will soon lose all of its luster and appeal.

A daily fee for just doing the standard and non-creative elements of making images is your starting point. Then you have to base your creative fee on how much of the process will be controlled and produced by you. If the shot is composed and set up by others and you just show up and push the button and leave then the creative fee is not going to be much. But the likelihood of that happening is remote. So you will have to make many creative decisions and that effort is what sets you apart from the button pushers.

So now you have your base creative fee to set and your non-creative fee for processing, delivery, and conferencing with the principles, arranging for models and setting schedules and obtaining rental equipment and catering for staff and assistants.

Like I said, Get the book. Just click the link and spend the money, it will be one of the best investments you will make in your entire career.

Jim