Oh Crap...

[superduperwesman]

So my buddy's fiance liked some of my photos (See my flickr, just personal stuff - photography is currently a hobby for me), and asked me to do an engagement shoot. I was kind of interested in trying something new so I agreed. I told them not to have great expectations because I wasn't sure how things would go. They weren't worried considering I was only doing it for the experience and even if it wasn't great results it wasn't likely going to be a total disaster.

I think the shoot went fairly well. I'm not 100% happy with the results (Ideally I'd like the photos to be a little crisper and I'm never that great with composition) but I think they got some images they're happy with. When I compare to some of my heros I'm reminded of how far I have to go but I think I could be enroute to eventually taking images that are consistently not bad.... not great but hopefully slightly beyond mediocre.

Feedback on her facebook was very positive (not to say that always means anything).

Currently, as kind of a snow ball I somehow have ~5 other shoots lined up. Another engagement, two new born, and two families. Some of which are requesting rates from me.

I've told them my rate is currently free because I guess I'm building a portfolio...

To be honest, I like the idea of money on the side. I like the idea of my hobby being able to pay for itself but I don't feel conformable charging people until I'm comfortable enough with my skill set to KNOW that I can delivery quality shots.

In one way the current lineup of "gigs" is a great opportunity to to build that confidence and get to a place where I could comfortably charge people should things continue to go well.

Here's my problem, I'm so busy as a full time engineer right now I'm not sure I can devote the energy required to have a side photography "business". Again, I really like the idea of it and would hate to miss a great opportunity to develop, but I'm worried that if things continue to grow I'll just end up doing a half ass job on the shoots and my oil and gas projects could also suffer.

I feel like if it's something that I was really set on I could put in the effort and handle everything, but I'd likely half kill myself in the process. I kind of keep thinking... "and to what end?" What happens if things continue to snowball. It's not like my responsibilities at my current job are shrinking. Actually the opposite. I mean I enjoy photography more then my current job but will it ever pay the bills as well.

I don't like the idea of letting people down. I'm flattered that they like my photos and would like to be part of an even support my product as I develop it..

I don't know. I feel like I'm just going down a road that isn't really going to lead me anywhere that I ultimately would be better off. Who knows, maybe I'm getting way ahead of myself...

The other things that worries me is, does anyone really like there hobby after it becomes work? I had a buddy who loved to Kayak until he was an instructor... not so fun.

Once I make promises I also realize the value of my time... I mean if it's going to become a work type feel how much is my time worth "working" at my current job?

I guess I also feel kind of weird charging to do something that I don't think I'm that good at, but maybe the the demand dictates the worth?

Anyway, kinda of a stupid circular rant. But I would be curious to hear about other's photography in conjunction with working full time jobs. Or of people who have left good paying industries for photography.

Some feedback on my photos would also be good. Ideally, a good roast will crush any wondering thoughts of making money with photography and then I'll no longer have a dilemma.

Alternatively I guess I could just start asking for money and then see how little worth the photos have anyway... which will mean a no contest. I guess even though they're asking my rates maybe they're expecting them to be (and would only be willing to pay) very little.

Anyway, just thinking out loud... literally

[Niresangwa]

So when I read the subject header and the first paragraph, I had that "ugh, here we go again" thought, so I'll be as honest as I always am responding to this kind of post...

...if you choose not to follow through on this, it will be a damned shame.

That thought is predicated upon the belief that 1) you're more consistent with your results than you make yourself out to be and 2) you have the capacity to improve as well.

Of the four shots you posted, it was honestly the second that did it for me. Outstanding. The use of the sun in the number three is also great. I'm sure numbers one and four will be popular with others, and they're nice, but the second is sublime.

You have to get out of the mindset that because you don't have grand aspirations that you're not worth money. You have to establish where your work is, quality-wise, in the market-place. I look at a lot of blogs and websites, and I'll honestly say that if you had a whole portfolio demonstrating the technique and quality, never mind the feeling you have going in those four samples, I wouldn't be surprised to you making at or above the market-value for your work.

Are there a couple of things I would change on those? Sure.. but this isnt a critique request. I'll happily stand by my assessment that as long as you're consistently able to produce that kind of image, you should definitely consider this.

Did you have nice light, good location and hawt couple? Yes. That helps immensely. I guess the question I'd ask is whether you can produce the same thing with poorer light, a less cute couple and a less attractive location...?

Anyways.. just my thoughts. Sorry to disappoint your hopes you'd be torn a new one.

As to the rest of your post, I can easily relate to it. I started my business with zero interest in making a living from it. I had a great, flexible and well paying job, and it was really just a case of "let's see if I can do this".. it was much more of a project for sh!ts and giggles than anything else..

...before I knew it, it was progressing faster than I knew what was happening, yet a year later here I sit. Still kind of wondering how it happened. One minute I"m happy picking up a wedding so I can put it in my '78 corvette fund or buy a lens, the next I'm shooting 40 weddings in a year. It went from a pet project to a fantastic job.

Did turning it into a job change how I viewed photography? You bet your life it did. I haven't shot anything for myself since February. Is it a chore? In some ways... it's like running a marathon. At the time you're doing it, it sucks b@lls. I complain to my wife the whole day. Then we get out tot he car, load up the gear and light that celebratory end-of-wedding-smoke, and then you say.. "man, that was fun"...

I sense a great deal of modesty in your writing, but I don't think you're representing yourself accurately. I think you know you're better than you like to make out you do, which is polite, but if we're going to talk turkey, you might need to be a little more honest about how much confidence you have in yourself. I"m not saying make up your own flag and t-shirt and start wh0ring yourself out for $2k workshops... but in all honestly, you need self-belief if you're going to make anything of this, even just a side job...

your level of self-efficacy will directly relate into how you approach everything from dealing with clients, to setting prices (which you need to do asap) and also assessing your work. Don't get me wrong, I"m under no illusions about my own stuff, but as a business you need to compare not to your own expectations, but the market place.

There are ways to really streamline your business and make it virtually no-maintenance.

In my opinion, for what it's worth, it would be a real shame if you didn't follow through with this.

[Pinellas Guy]

Great shots. I'm in your boat. Full time job and really love photography. I just want when I start charging and setting rates that I do it legit. Legit means pay the pesty city $50 a year in tax and charge and remit sales tax. So many "photogs" in my market advertise on craigs and there the shoot and burn type. I take way too much pride in my work to give someone a disk of images and have them printed at the corner.

I wished I had more friends so my portfolio would have more of a variety of people in it.

Going back to the images. I can tell that they must like horses. When I see engagement photos and the happy couple are not laughing, enjoying life - I say the photog does not get it - you do! Great shots and composition.

Kyle

[mshockley]

I really don't know what to say aside from that I absolutely love the 4 images you've posted!

[3bayjunkie]

I also love all that you posted. They are very nice. I would charge for your time. the more you charge the less clients you will have and the more fun you will have doing the shoots

[Ambrosia76]

If I could consistently produce photos like yours I would be quitting my full time job, or making it a part time one.

[NathanFranke]

What everyone else said. If you love your day job, then a few weddings here or there (I'm thinking 1 a month) won't burn you out. It'll also make your photography habit self-sustaining--provided you charge appropriately.

If you don't feel that good about charging people, they won't respect the work as much. People always appreciate something more if they have skin in the game. If you charge nothing, then they'll treat it like it's worth nothing. I'm not saying that you need to have the married couple sign over their firstborn to you, but at least charge for the bus fare and a combo meal.

You can always say "no" if you're getting more offers than you want to take. And if you end up liking it more than your day job, then you can start weening yourself off the one and onto the other.

[superduperwesman]

Thanks for the replies!

They truly have been helpful.

Even though I don't smoke, I think that "celebratory end-of wedding-smoke,... that was fun" feeling is worth trying to take this further. Who knows, oil and gas could get slow so it'd be nice to have a fall back.

I'll do the next 5 shoots free (as promised) and consider that end end of my decision / free period.

As long as I produce consistent results I think I'll start charging for jobs and set the rate accordingly to limit the demand.

High enough that not everyone and their dog will wants me to do photos, but low enough that I can get the occasional gig to continue to develop my skills at a frequency that isn't stressful.

Any suggestions for that value? Last shoot I shot for 2.5 hours, edited for ~ 3 and gave them ~95 photos on disc.

I agree that I need to present myself confidently and should things continue to go well I'll take that approach. I'm present myself confidently in my current field but I also have a number of I think I actually scared this couple a few times when I was having some trouble hitting a few shots how I'd like ahah. Probably not a good thing.

At the end I told them I should have 4-5 good shots and she worriedly reply "oh.. probably a few more than that don't you think?"

Some of my up and coming subjects aren't as "hawt" so it will be interesting to see how I can cope with less than ideal circumstances. "Good players adapt to all circumstances" as I use to always say in Lacrosse, so I guess we'll see if I'm any "good" when I have to adapt in photography.

I really need to get a model release sorted out, and even though I'm not charging I should likely sort out a contract anyway. If things go good I'll be needing them.

I currently have a corporation for contracting in the oil and gas world so I'm not sure if I could just add photography to that corporation?

I'm going to have to do some more ready because I also don't really know what the best size of files to give people is (see how can you charge people when you don't even know this kind of stuff ahaha - I'll just figure it out so I don't have to feel like a fraud)

Lucky I should be doing few enough that I won't need a blog or website...

It'll be interesting to see how it goes... or how long before I have a stroke.

Again, I do appreciate the time to reply. You always read about people who think they take photos worth money "because all my facebook friends think I take amazing photos" and I didn't want to be one of those delusional people...

[yulchick]

Those shots are great, I also checked out your flickr and I just love the one of them in the grass!

[scootermcq]

Originally Posted by superduperwesman

Any suggestions for that value? Last shoot I shot for 2.5 hours, edited for ~ 3 and gave them ~95 photos on disc.

You need to look at your market to decide where pricing is, so that you will be competitive.

Few things to look at:

How much do you want to make $/hr
What are your costs?

hours x $xxx + expenses = rate

There are some things that you are going to have to guesstimate numbers for a while, because your fixed costs will be lower per shoot the more you do (i.e. business insurance)

Things to consider:
Insurance
Licensees
Capital Expenses & Depreciation (camera etc)
Advertising
Office supplies
Phone Bills
Car depreciation
Gas
Prints etc

These are just examples, but I only have 3 hours sleep, so I am foggy. When you do your business plan, you figure this will cost me x number of dollars. I plan to shoot 12 weddings & 24 portrait sessions annually, so my cost per shoot = $ (probably weight weddings more of the cost)

So, I have figured as an example that each time I hit my shutter release it costs me a nickel in depreciation.

Anyway, in your example:

5.5 hours for shooting & editing, probably an hour in driving, so you have invested 6.5 hours of your life into this. If you want to make $50/hr to start & you calculate that it costs you $40 in expenses then:

6.5 x $50 + $40 = $365.00 in sitting fee.

Others here will say that is too cheap because you have given a disk. You need to decide what that is worth to you. This is just an example of how I would decide what to charge, not exactly what I would charge.