Commercial Photographers in the UK, what do you charge and how?

[mokka]

I'm currently putting together a business plan to set up business as a commercial photographer, and need a research base behind my decision of what my prices will be and how I will charge clients.

I'm based in Cumbria, my business advisor suggested to me that if I'm finding it difficult to find out what photographers in my area charge (because I would have to pose as a client and even then I only get vague answers without going to a consultation) I could ask photographers elsewhere. In peoples experience do prices vary a lot up and down the country or would knowing what photographers in Norfolk or Wales charge be meaningless to me?

Also how do you charge? I keep reading that charging a commission fee is becoming obsolete and most photographers now don't charge for the shoot and make all their money by selling the photos afterwards. I'm finding little evidence to suggest this is the case, but maybe it's just that Cumbria is a bit behind the times and this is more common in big cities.

Thanks anyone for your help. If you don't want to post information on here then you can e-mail me at will@wmphoto.co.uk

And feel free to call me a presumptuous little so-and-so for having the cheek to ask other photographers what they charge. I already think that of myself :P

[andyw]

Prices vary from city to city and also from business to business within a city.

By all means check what others are charging but YOUR charging must be based on your cost of doing business.
Fred over the road may be charging 100 per day but have no mortgage, no studio, cheap equipment and basic insurance
John around the corner may charge 2000 per day but have massive outgoings or a reputation which is second to none so clients are willing to pay the prices.

I don't know where you have heard this "don't charge for the shoot and make all their money by selling the photos afterwards. " but in commercial photography that is just not the case.

Mind you, that depends on your definition of "commercial".
My definition is doing work for business clients, i.e. pack shots, advertising, corporate headshots etc.
For that sort of work then it is normally charged out at a day rate with licensing and expenses on top of that.

I don't mind telling you that my basic day rate is £800, That is in London and is probably about average for what I do.

That includes what I class as a basic license for use in internal company publications and intranet sites. Anything outside of that is additional.

Ultimately it is upto you to set your prices according to your financial requirements and skills and also obviously geared to the clients you are aiming for.

[Biomech]

I'm from the west midlands and generally go in at £80/hour. Most PR companies I've worked with tend not to want A: the technical babble of what you need to shoot with and B: license fees. They generally just say "Give me a quote for the job for everything".

[mokka]

Thanks for the information, I don't know where I first read this commission fee only thing, but I've seen it talked about a couple of times.

I had imagined that London would be a lot more expensive, I don't know if there is a huge difference between the rest of the country though.

I've been on a business course, and the advisors there, very experienced and knowledgable but not necessarily able to provide advice targeted at photographers. They were quite clear that while you need to work out how much your service costs to provide and how much profit you need to make to pay taxes, pay yourself and expand your business; ultimately you charge the going rate for your services, if you charge higher then unless you're able to justify this by being known as the best around, you won't get any business; if you charge lower you'll start a price war and be run out of business by competitors better able to withstand it.

@ Andy W, my definition of commercial is the same as yours, though in my neck of the woods there aren't many 'big businesses'. My clients will mostly be in the retail, arts and crafts, food and drink and hospitality sectors and well as web and graphic designers subcontracting me.

I might have the same licencing strategy as you. I've broken down the various uses it can be licenced for into four packages, a 'basic' one like yours, then this can be augmenting by adding a commercial one covering most commercial uses, a media one for use in the media and finally product packages for uses in products such as postcards, calendars etc.

[andyw]

Originally Posted by mokka

Thanks for the information, I don't know where I first read this commission fee only thing, but I've seen it talked about a couple of times.

I had imagined that London would be a lot more expensive, I don't know if there is a huge difference between the rest of the country though.

I've been on a business course, and the advisors there, very experienced and knowledgable but not necessarily able to provide advice targeted at photographers. They were quite clear that while you need to work out how much your service costs to provide and how much profit you need to make to pay taxes, pay yourself and expand your business; ultimately you charge the going rate for your services, if you charge higher then unless you're able to justify this by being known as the best around, you won't get any business; if you charge lower you'll start a price war and be run out of business by competitors better able to withstand it.

@ Andy W, my definition of commercial is the same as yours, though in my neck of the woods there aren't many 'big businesses'. My clients will mostly be in the retail, arts and crafts, food and drink and hospitality sectors and well as web and graphic designers subcontracting me.

I might have the same licencing strategy as you. I've broken down the various uses it can be licenced for into four packages, a 'basic' one like yours, then this can be augmenting by adding a commercial one covering most commercial uses, a media one for use in the media and finally product packages for uses in products such as postcards, calendars etc.

I don't think rates in London are really that much more than the rest of the country. The average gets boosted a bit because it is really the centre for most of the large agencies and the like. But for the rest of us the businesses are mainly SME's which have the same sort of struggles as the rest of the country. Also as there is a lot more competition then the prices do have to be kept reasonable.

It is right about the "going rate" but that still has to be within your own COB. (and abilities)
We have people around my area pitching for some jobs at rates which are 50% lower than mine but they tend to be the the ones who either die very quickly or are not actually capable of producing the work to the required standard.

Licensing is a continual problem these days with ALL companies trying to get "everything" for a very very low rate.
I even had a multinational bank try and stiff me recently with a copyright grab. Luckily though I had a contact with their higher echelons who understood and put the guy straight.

Good luck anyway.

[mokka]

Thanks, the one local commercial photographer I've managed to get pricing for so far charges £240 for the day, plus £10 for each photograph (with an 'unlimited' licence).

Although I've come across a few people who can't seem to get their heads round that concept that a photo taken of their property isn't automatically their copyright, for example a colleague in my day-job who flat-down refused to believe that if it came down to it and hypothetically he took me to court to assert his copyright over my photos the court would rule in my favour (He wasn't actually commissioning any photos he just thinks he knows everything and was trying to give me advice on setting up business), most business clients that I've spoken to during my market research already have an instinctive knowledge of how copyright works.