Need some advice

[everlast]

Hi Everyone,

I'm having a problem deciding what to do with this situation. I know what I want to do; but I'm not sure if it's the right move or not. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

About a month ago I was contacted by a wedding planner in my city. He had a client and was interested in using our services. We set up the meeting and last night we went to meet the clients for the first time.

We had explained to the planner that we hadn't been taking wedding photos for a very long period of time (7 months) but they saw our work and liked what they saw. In the words of the wedding planner "they were very excited" to meet us. Upon meeting them, we didn't get this feeling at all. Stipulations started being put into account. No pre-wedding pictures, you can't use any pictures of my daughter on your website or anywhere else; then it came down to they would pick which pictures we could use on our website and for advertising purposes.

About an hour after the meeting I got a call from the wedding planner and he said that although they like our work they're not happy with the fact that we've only been taking photos for 7 months. He asked if we would consider doing the engagement shoot (which we offer free with all packages) and then let them decide if they like the photos enough to sign a contract with us). I do not like the idea of this. I don't want to jump through hoops and invest a lot of my time to someone who is likely going to find something wrong with my work. I wrote the wedding planner and told him that if they're not comfortable that is fine, they should find someone that they're completely comfortable with, they should have no doubts when it comes to their wedding photographer. The wedding planner then went on to say maybe they'll be our big break? Am I wrong in thinking the way I am? What would you do?

Thanks in advance

[NgaiHill]

Hmmm, do you need the "big break"?
Personally I think you should stay away from them as they sound like they will be more trouble than they are worth. They are already dictating terms to you that sound IMHO unreasonable and are now trying to get a free engagement session out of you without any promise you'll get to do the wedding. I think that even if you did do the wedding they would find more problems further down the line and there is a potential for issues with contracts and money.
And if they are this difficult to deal with now, your potential to have difficulties/conflict with them after the wedding is probably fairly high - and do you want that kind of advertising for your business?
Just my opinion - hopefully some of the more seasoned pro on here will give you their two cents as well.

[BigFuzzy]

This really depends on your situation.

Shitty situation quite honestly though, on some levels I understand their want to be 100% of the person they're hiring for such an important event.

I would respond in one of two ways:
1. Tell them to shove it. Not doing a shoot for you, free of charge, just to prove myself. Seeing as you don't have lots of wedding/pre-wedding experience, might not be best for you.
2. You do the pre-shoot with a stiuplation on-paper (signed!) that you get to use the resulting images as you see fit on your site and for personal promotion. Then, once you prove yourself, you renegotiate better terms for youself such as usage for the photos of the wedding on your site and/or self promotion.

If you take option #1 you lose nor gain anything.
If you take option #2 worst case you may gain a nice pre-shoot session to pad your portfolio with the chance of getting a paid gig that will also pad your port.

In the end I can understand both sides.

The wedding planner, when they say "we may be your break" shows me they're definitely interested. So, unless this extra pre-shoot interferes with you getting other work.. why not? As long as you get to use the images on your site. No point going through a shoot that helps you in no guaranteed way (seeing as you getting the wedding is not guaranteed).

Oh, I almost forgot,.. IF you do the pre-shoot.. watermark the shit out the images so there's NO chance they get anything for free if they don't hire you. Make them completely unuseable if you send them proofs.. best would be to meet them in person with a contact sheet so there's no chance they steal your shiznit.

[RLucas]

Originally Posted by everlast

The wedding planner then went on to say maybe they'll be our big break? Am I wrong in thinking the way I am? What would you do?

Thanks in advance

The wedding planner's words kind of piss me off. It reads like a cheesy salesman saying "you better get it before it's gone". It raises a red flag for me because you give away e-sessions with other packages. Somehow I get the feeling they trying to pull one over on you. Of course, I may be wrong.

[MrJones]

first of all, I think a costumer has a right to demand that his photos won't show up on your site.
when doing a portrait or senior shoot I usually ask if I can use the photos, if they say yes then great, if they say no it's good too, I will still do the job.
that being said, doing the engagement shoot for free - you should at least get to use the photos on your site.
I like bigfuzzy idea of watermarking the photos shut

[dvtldav]

Charge for the engagement shoot with the understanding that if they use you for the wedding, that amount is taken off of the cost of the wedding package.

Dave

[dhaemion]

Originally Posted by dvtldav

Charge for the engagement shoot with the understanding that if they use you for the wedding, that amount is taken off of the cost of the wedding package.

Dave

This is a great idea, that way you still get something. I totally agree with everyone else, the company sounds very fishy. I would ask who the other photographers they contract with are and contact them to see what they think about the company, it might give you a bit more input on what you are getting into if you decide to work with them. They are going to give you the ones that they like, of course, but it is still a start.

[OsmosisStudios]

Originally Posted by MrJones

first of all, I think a costumer has a right to demand that his photos won't show up on your site.
when doing a portrait or senior shoot I usually ask if I can use the photos, if they say yes then great, if they say no it's good too, I will still do the job.

Disagree completely. This is in my contracts - all my contracts. I stipulate that I can use the images for promotional and portfolio use. That's standard issue in the industry.

[lputman]

Originally Posted by dvtldav

Charge for the engagement shoot with the understanding that if they use you for the wedding, that amount is taken off of the cost of the wedding package.

Dave

I also agree. Additionally, it gives you a chance to decide if you even want to do their wedding. It seems like there are going to be problematic parents involved.

[Niresangwa]

Overall here, I'd say forget the couple, they seem like a pain in the ass. When they start demanding stipulations right of the gate, that's a huge red flag.

However, I'm aware that just starting out, you're in the mindset to take what you can get to get some traction with building the business, for good or bad.

That said, I've dealt with a couple of clients who didn't want to go 'all in' immediately.

In that case I explained the engagement session would then default to a regular portrait shoot, and my regular rate of $300 per hour, paid up front as usual. If they elected to use me for the wedding, that $300 would be applied towards their wedding retainer. If they didn't, no harm done. No one walked away afterwards.

You shouldn't have to do any audition for the job beyond answering any questions, providing references and showing your portfolio.