About my first wedding gig - re: contracts, etc.

[SarahRose]

Hello!

I come to you with a situation that I'm hoping those more experienced can help me with.

Here's the situation...


I would call myself semi-professional. I have a degree in Film, and I have been paid for a few various photography gigs here and there since graduation last August - family photos, etc.

Well, one of my very best friends is getting married this June. Last fall, she told me that she was appalled by the prices photographers charge and that it wasn't that important to her to have photos of her wedding, so she would just hand her camera to a relative. I was appalled, so I volunteered to do the photography myself. I realized that this took away my bridal party status and made me an employee of the day, but I was so concerned for her memories, etc. (which I find very, very important in life) that I took it upon myself to volunteer and take care of the day for her, in that regard. I said I wouldn't charge; it would be my wedding gift to her as long as she paid for my transportation (it's about 8 hours away from home for most of her guests) and lodging. Okay. Deal. (I realize that this is a mighty expensive wedding present, seeing as I do have much training and am hoping to break into the business. I know, I know...)

Well, now as time is going on and the wedding is getting closer and closer, it's obvious that she does care. I'm glad she's excited and getting involved and ideas, etc. I mean, obviously this is a different situation than dealing with clients who are acquaintances or strangers; I am in the thick of the wedding plans and such with her; she's one of my best friends. So we talk a lot. I don't believe she is taking advantage of me consciously, but I think she is excited that she's getting professional-grade photography for, essentially, free. On the other hand, she's a very critical person - the kind that flaunts her Design degree around as her reason to know best about everything design-related and graphically-related.

I feel like I'm getting ahead of myself. I just feel like there's so much to point out! Bear with me!

Anyway, we did an engagement session last fall - for free. I know. I'm kinda dumb. But it's also reallllllly hard for me to say no to things, and I did want to do it for the experience. The engagement session was my first one, and this wedding will be my first one. I'm nervous as all get out.

The engagement session went well (if you would like to check it out, click here: Alison & Ryan's Engagement - 9/25/10 - a set on Flickr) considering it was not an ideal day weather-wise, and that I had never shot couples before. I was really proud of myself. Still am, despite the improvements I know I could make and have made since then.

Shortly after the engagement shoot, I had a family shoot (check it out here: ) that I feel was a benchmark for me; I learned soooo much on that shoot; I wish I had had it a little earlier so I could utilize what I learned during the engagement shoot!

Anyway, my friend was not exactly pleased with the engagement shoot. She never said so, but she kept pointing out the flaws and what she'd have to 'fix' on Photoshop. Considering I'm a good photographer who is still learning and actually did a pretty good job - and doing all of this for free - I thought she was being unfair. She wasn't excited in the least, or at least didn't show it. The reaction was, at best, lukewarm. I get that, from a businesswoman-client POV, but I also felt she should have been at least a little more considerate of me as a friend. I don't want people walking on eggshells around me, but I felt like a huge bubble was burst, and she knows me pretty well. It just kind of hurt. Again, I know, I know - mixing business and pleasure is not good for friendships or hearts.

I spent hours in post-processing myself, and I tweaked each photo for her. Every single good one, she received; I didn't even make her choose which ones she wanted. She got them all. She also asked for the RAW files. I think this is where my real mistake came to play; I gave them to her. Looking back now, I shouldn't have. I did it because she was my friend, and because I'm a newb, but I have learned now not to do that. I shouldn't have done it in the first place.

So she Photoshopped a little bit, and used one of the photographs for her Save the Dates, which she distributed recently. She hasn't used a single other one, which is her prerogative, but still bugs me. She was excited to put them up on Facebook before they were taken, and now not a one has gone up. She doesn't have any printed or framed, nothing. I know it's her choice, but that irritates me.

She brought up, shortly after the session last fall, that we should do another or two so I could get more practice. She also suggested we have a 'crit' like each of us used to do at our respective colleges for our artistic work. Um. Ha. Thanks, but no. I'm not sitting around with our non-artistic friends to hold a crit of my professional work. That annoyed me to death.

Still, I said nothing. And this is my flaw in the business world. I'm too nice. It sabotages me as an artist and businesswoman. This is the problem I am encountering now.

We never got around to a second engagement shoot, mainly because her fiance is still in school in southern OH and we are in northern IL and it's been so very cold in these parts. Well, this weekend she has a bridal expo that she invited me along to, though the plan is still tentative itself. It's a 6-hour drive we'd have to turn around and do round trip the same day, so she's not sure it's worth it. But she suggested that even if we don't end up traveling for the expo, that we start working on poses and such for her for the day of, so that I'm ready.

Okay, I know, from knowing her for ten years, that she's not being offensive on purpose. It's just the way she is. It's not passive-aggressive, either. It's genuine and oblivious. But I don't know how to go about saying no. It's a problem in many aspects of my life. No, I don't want to work on poses with you right now, and I don't want to be criticized at every turn - with genuine concern or not. Yes, I volunteered, but she has also said she considers herself lucky. So why not just let me do my professional thing? Is she worried I'm going to mess it all up and she's going to be disappointed? Well, if that's your concern, go ahead and spend a couple thousand dollars on an experienced professional like you didn't want to do! Ya know?! She wants her cake and to eat it too. Look here, missy, I am much better than the average shmoe friend you'd be asking anyway!

So okay, I can get all incensed here with you guys, telling my story, but I am so bad at saying 'no' in person. And I'm going to need to figure it out. That's why I'm here, asking for your advice.

Yesterday, I was explaining photographers' rights and contracting and such to a mutual friend, while at the bride-friend's house. She butted in, of course, talking about contracts for photographic use and rights and things. She goes, "Sarah's not getting paid, so she can't make money off of photos of us, but she can use them in her portfolio. And we'll be able to Photoshop them ourselves." I was like... Uh. Isn't that up to me?

We have no paper contract, and I'm going to be making one up soon, and I think that's going to cause trouble. I'm retaining my rights to the image, and giving her copyright as well, so she can make prints. I was intending on giving her all the proofs, and not making her choose, and I'm not doing the printing/album work for her. I'm simply going to go through post and give her the photos on a disc or two. That was always the intention, and I would like to keep those terms. However, I don't want to give her the RAW files this time, I don't want her editing the photos ('Design degree' or not) and I don't certainly don't want the level of dictatorship I sense approaching.

I want to tell her off, honestly, but I don't want to get into a fight or risk our friendship over any of this. I don't want to cause strife. So I don't know how to go about my terms.


So, I ask of you, firstly - is she right in what she's saying? That I can't profit from her photos if I'm not charging them? If it's just a favor? Not that I'd be selling them elsewhere anyway, but I'm wondering.

Are there any contract stipulations that are already laws (or what have you) or is everything up to me/us?

And how do you recommend I go about making a contract that suits my terms? I don't want to be a crazy person, or an icy person (or too formal) about it, but I also don't want her calling all the shots before or the day of. I realize they are the 'employers' and I will listen to all their photographic visions and requests. I've done my research and I know, basically, how to go about everything, what to shoot, etc. It's not that I want zero input; I know I need some from the bride and groom, whose day it is. But I don't need the Design Degree aspect of the bride coming through at every turn. If she wants to bridezilla me, she's going to have to pay me. How do I express that?


I apologize for this getting sooooo long-winded, and thank you for reading and/or responding!

[SarahRose]

I'm not allowed to edit the post, but I noticed that a bit of HTML didn't show up. The missing link to the family portrait session I linked to is:

Larson Family Shoot - 10/24/10 - a set on Flickr



Thank you.

[candleman]

Originally Posted by SarahRose

Hello!

I come to you with a situation that I'm hoping those more experienced can help me with.

Here's the situation...


I would call myself semi-professional. I have a degree in Film, and I have been paid for a few various photography gigs here and there since graduation last August - family photos, etc.

Well, one of my very best friends is getting married this June. Last fall, she told me that she was appalled by the prices photographers charge and that it wasn't that important to her to have photos of her wedding, so she would just hand her camera to a relative. I was appalled, so I volunteered to do the photography myself. I realized that this took away my bridal party status and made me an employee of the day, but I was so concerned for her memories, etc. (which I find very, very important in life) that I took it upon myself to volunteer and take care of the day for her, in that regard. I said I wouldn't charge; it would be my wedding gift to her as long as she paid for my transportation (it's about 8 hours away from home for most of her guests) and lodging. Okay. Deal. (I realize that this is a mighty expensive wedding present, seeing as I do have much training and am hoping to break into the business. I know, I know...)

Well, now as time is going on and the wedding is getting closer and closer, it's obvious that she does care. I'm glad she's excited and getting involved and ideas, etc. I mean, obviously this is a different situation than dealing with clients who are acquaintances or strangers; I am in the thick of the wedding plans and such with her; she's one of my best friends. So we talk a lot. I don't believe she is taking advantage of me consciously, but I think she is excited that she's getting professional-grade photography for, essentially, free. On the other hand, she's a very critical person - the kind that flaunts her Design degree around as her reason to know best about everything design-related and graphically-related.

I feel like I'm getting ahead of myself. I just feel like there's so much to point out! Bear with me!

Anyway, we did an engagement session last fall - for free. I know. I'm kinda dumb. But it's also reallllllly hard for me to say no to things, and I did want to do it for the experience. The engagement session was my first one, and this wedding will be my first one. I'm nervous as all get out.

The engagement session went well (if you would like to check it out, click here: Alison & Ryan's Engagement - 9/25/10 - a set on Flickr) considering it was not an ideal day weather-wise, and that I had never shot couples before. I was really proud of myself. Still am, despite the improvements I know I could make and have made since then.

Shortly after the engagement shoot, I had a family shoot (check it out here: ) that I feel was a benchmark for me; I learned soooo much on that shoot; I wish I had had it a little earlier so I could utilize what I learned during the engagement shoot!

Anyway, my friend was not exactly pleased with the engagement shoot. She never said so, but she kept pointing out the flaws and what she'd have to 'fix' on Photoshop. Considering I'm a good photographer who is still learning and actually did a pretty good job - and doing all of this for free - I thought she was being unfair. She wasn't excited in the least, or at least didn't show it. The reaction was, at best, lukewarm. I get that, from a businesswoman-client POV, but I also felt she should have been at least a little more considerate of me as a friend. I don't want people walking on eggshells around me, but I felt like a huge bubble was burst, and she knows me pretty well. It just kind of hurt. Again, I know, I know - mixing business and pleasure is not good for friendships or hearts.

I spent hours in post-processing myself, and I tweaked each photo for her. Every single good one, she received; I didn't even make her choose which ones she wanted. She got them all. She also asked for the RAW files. I think this is where my real mistake came to play; I gave them to her. Looking back now, I shouldn't have. I did it because she was my friend, and because I'm a newb, but I have learned now not to do that. I shouldn't have done it in the first place.

So she Photoshopped a little bit, and used one of the photographs for her Save the Dates, which she distributed recently. She hasn't used a single other one, which is her prerogative, but still bugs me. She was excited to put them up on Facebook before they were taken, and now not a one has gone up. She doesn't have any printed or framed, nothing. I know it's her choice, but that irritates me.

She brought up, shortly after the session last fall, that we should do another or two so I could get more practice. She also suggested we have a 'crit' like each of us used to do at our respective colleges for our artistic work. Um. Ha. Thanks, but no. I'm not sitting around with our non-artistic friends to hold a crit of my professional work. That annoyed me to death.

Still, I said nothing. And this is my flaw in the business world. I'm too nice. It sabotages me as an artist and businesswoman. This is the problem I am encountering now.

We never got around to a second engagement shoot, mainly because her fiance is still in school in southern OH and we are in northern IL and it's been so very cold in these parts. Well, this weekend she has a bridal expo that she invited me along to, though the plan is still tentative itself. It's a 6-hour drive we'd have to turn around and do round trip the same day, so she's not sure it's worth it. But she suggested that even if we don't end up traveling for the expo, that we start working on poses and such for her for the day of, so that I'm ready.

Okay, I know, from knowing her for ten years, that she's not being offensive on purpose. It's just the way she is. It's not passive-aggressive, either. It's genuine and oblivious. But I don't know how to go about saying no. It's a problem in many aspects of my life. No, I don't want to work on poses with you right now, and I don't want to be criticized at every turn - with genuine concern or not. Yes, I volunteered, but she has also said she considers herself lucky. So why not just let me do my professional thing? Is she worried I'm going to mess it all up and she's going to be disappointed? Well, if that's your concern, go ahead and spend a couple thousand dollars on an experienced professional like you didn't want to do! Ya know?! She wants her cake and to eat it too. Look here, missy, I am much better than the average shmoe friend you'd be asking anyway!

So okay, I can get all incensed here with you guys, telling my story, but I am so bad at saying 'no' in person. And I'm going to need to figure it out. That's why I'm here, asking for your advice.

Yesterday, I was explaining photographers' rights and contracting and such to a mutual friend, while at the bride-friend's house. She butted in, of course, talking about contracts for photographic use and rights and things. She goes, "Sarah's not getting paid, so she can't make money off of photos of us, but she can use them in her portfolio. And we'll be able to Photoshop them ourselves." I was like... Uh. Isn't that up to me?

We have no paper contract, and I'm going to be making one up soon, and I think that's going to cause trouble. I'm retaining my rights to the image, and giving her copyright as well, so she can make prints. I was intending on giving her all the proofs, and not making her choose, and I'm not doing the printing/album work for her. I'm simply going to go through post and give her the photos on a disc or two. That was always the intention, and I would like to keep those terms. However, I don't want to give her the RAW files this time, I don't want her editing the photos ('Design degree' or not) and I don't certainly don't want the level of dictatorship I sense approaching.

I want to tell her off, honestly, but I don't want to get into a fight or risk our friendship over any of this. I don't want to cause strife. So I don't know how to go about my terms.


So, I ask of you, firstly - is she right in what she's saying? That I can't profit from her photos if I'm not charging them? If it's just a favor? Not that I'd be selling them elsewhere anyway, but I'm wondering.

Are there any contract stipulations that are already laws (or what have you) or is everything up to me/us?

And how do you recommend I go about making a contract that suits my terms? I don't want to be a crazy person, or an icy person (or too formal) about it, but I also don't want her calling all the shots before or the day of. I realize they are the 'employers' and I will listen to all their photographic visions and requests. I've done my research and I know, basically, how to go about everything, what to shoot, etc. It's not that I want zero input; I know I need some from the bride and groom, whose day it is. But I don't need the Design Degree aspect of the bride coming through at every turn. If she wants to bridezilla me, she's going to have to pay me. How do I express that?


I apologize for this getting sooooo long-winded, and thank you for reading and/or responding!

Where do I start? ...this is going to take a while.

[SarahRose]

Tell me about it. I've gotten myself into a mess, and I totally see how it's my fault. lol

[Jim Bryant]

Even through she's your friend, she sounds like a royal pain in the butt and will be the bridezilla from hell. Frankly, to save your friendship, I'd tell her that since you don't measure up to her expectations as a her wedding photographer and to save your friendship to please hire a professional photographer. Let them deal with this spoiled %#@*! as I for one would surely tell her to go take an aeronautical intercourse at a rolling donut.

[RLucas]

Jared and Jim can give you much better advice here, but I would ask her if she is really good at extended arm self portraits, because that is where it would be if it were me.

[zona5101]

If you want to remain friends you should just get out of it asap.

Even thought you weren't getting paid you own the images and can do what every you want. If you do decide to do it, you should make a contract and get it signed.

Your engagement shots were not very good. I would be concerned as well. Your family fun shots were better but I wonder if it was more the change in the environment/lighting than anything you actively did.

Good luck.

Work on saying "no" and brevity.

[Jim Bryant]

You can google "photography contracts" and find many to tailor to suit your needs.

[tarakc]

I'm not 100% sure about how to go about answering this, it's a LOT of stuff to get through, but here goes:
I'm just starting to break into the Wedding photography business in Australia, and have been lucky enough to do a few unpaid shoots for friends. Each and every one has been made to sign a contract for me, because it's the only way to retain some rights.
I NEVER give out RAW files, and when I give jpegs on disc They already have my edits done to them, and the metadata changed to place an invisible copyright.
RAW files are a dangerous thing to give out, and permission to post on Facebook even more-so. Stipulate that no deep edits should be done to your work without your say-so, and that you need to be credited whenever your work is displayed where others can see it. On Facebook, Twitter etc, I request my clients and friends caption my works.
You also need to tell your friend that you understand she's not trying to hurt your feelings, but she's undercutting your potential and rights, and that if the photos are important to her than she needs to give you some trust and credit. Friend or no, if she's putting pressure on you, your work with be less that your best on the day - TRUST ME!
The rights to use of images are yours, and I would suggest pointing out that you're hoping to use them in advertising and portfolios. Both my clients and friends sign a waiver with me, so that I may use their images in folio building. Point out to your friend that as your first wedding, this is your chance to break into the business and without display of the images it'll be a lot harder. If she's a good/supportive/caring friend she'll want what's best for you.
Make the contract a non-negotiable. Either she signs a contract that states your terms, and is set out to protect your and her interests, she finds a new photographer, who will cost into the thousands, or she goes without! Make sure the contract states exactly what she'll get in the way of digital copies, and what edits you're comfortable with her making.
There's a fantastic post here on DPS with an excellent sample contract that I use as a template for my own. I make the necessary changes, and apply Australian legalities. For a US Wedding it's fantastic, and easier than writing from scratch.
Also realise that she's accepted this from you knowing your abilities and talents. If she's less than impressed with the end results, remind her that you're an entry-level Wedding photographer, who she saved a LOT of money on, and that this was a gift.
I hope what I'm saying here makes sense, and I wish you all the best. Wedding photography is mind-blowingly tricky, but intensely rewarding.
All the best!

[nickbedford]

Originally Posted by zona5101

If you want to remain friends you should just get out of it asap.

Even thought you weren't getting paid you own the images and can do what every you want. If you do decide to do it, you should make a contract and get it signed.

Your engagement shots were not very good. I would be concerned as well. Your family fun shots were better but I wonder if it was more the change in the environment/lighting than anything you actively did.

Good luck.

Work on saying "no" and brevity.

I think you could help out by saying why you think they were not good. I didn't think they were bad, just a little "plain"? Despite the nice contrast and crispness and composition. I also think you used too many of the photos. For one scene, you really only need the best one or two shots and move on. If you're shooting a wedding, you'll run up gigabytes of photos in seconds.

But anyway, it sounds as if:

• She's being very disrespectful and doesn't realise. This is not a good thing. People who don't know they're being disrespectful and given your closeness, hurtful, aren't good in this situation.
• Get outta there asap. I think you need to actually give her a reason why you're backing out. She's not appreciating what you'll be doing for her, obviously, and seems to think she knows more than you about photography.
• Drop the "I'll do anything for you" best friend act and give her the professional treatment. If she's going to be a pain, don't bother. Honestly.
• If you toughen up on her and say "This is it or you can go and hire someone for $2000", hopefully she'll get the idea and back off, if she's this "best friend" you keep talking about.