Customer requesting digitals - lol now im creating this famous thread. :(

[bhursey]

Well I was just approached about providing images on a cd to a customer I never do this. I only provide prints I am trying to figure out the best way to respond. No way would I give them a cd with 50-100 images.. I think they are use to the budget photographers. I don't even know where to begin when pricing out digitals

This was the message I got. Sounds to me like the are pice hunting for the lowest price.

"I was wondering how much it would be for a photo shoot with 3 generations? There would be 6 adults and 4 children. I would rather have a cd of the photo shoot. What would you charge for the CD and no prints? We live close by and could either shoot at your location or one of our homes, which ever is more convenient for you. We would like to get them done before Christmas if possible."

I think I may respond

"Normal sitting fee 50$, 25$ of that goes twards prints if orderd within 30 days. This pays for the 1-2hour shoot, Post processing and artistic renders of the images and posting of gallery for viewing and ordering prints. I do not normally give out full resolution digitals on cd. I do however offer a Web cd with 10 web sized images for your personal use for 25$ this is perfect for Facebook, myspace or your personal website. "



The way I normally work is I have a 50$ sitting fee 25$ of that fee go towards prints if ordered within 30days. Here is my price list. Brian Hursey Photography Priceing I dont think it is unreasonable at all.

I want to stick to my guns. My average order in prints is around 100-200$ per shoot. So if I say do a shoot and they buy just one digital image its almost not worth it. What I am picturing is them going to cvs and the print not looking what they expect and get mad. I print through Millers lab using zenfoleo.

[kirbinster]

Those that practice photography as a business are not going to like this, but I think you guys need to join the 21st century and understand the technology and distribution methods are changing. I think you need to change your pricing models to price your time and creativity separately from the commodity which is a print. Customers don't want to pay huge markups on prints. What that means is that you can offer your work in different flavors.

One package could be a sitting fee plus editing and then prints ala carte - the old method. Another needs to be low resolution electronics - customers want that and will find it from someone else if not from you. Face it they can buy a few prints and make the low res stuff anyway.

The other method is where you make your money on the sitting fee and the edit time and then offer prints at or near the cost of the commodity. The final method, is a high charge for full detail digital images.

Comments welcomed.

[andyw]

Do it one of two ways I guess.
Outright refuse - politely off course - making the reason that YOU as the professional want to keep control of the final quality of the product or some such thing.



Or cede to the request and figure out what you would normally make from that sort of group shoot and then at least double the figure for the CD only.
So if it would be 300 print sales make the cd 600 - or be "nice" and offer 10% discount.

[bhursey]

What do you mean by this "Another needs to be low resolution electronics - customers want that and will find it from someone else if not from you."


I have been pondering changing my pricing model... I think its all conditional on what she wants. If she wants a full shoot with like 50-100 pictures on a cd I don't think I am gonna do that. However if she wants say to pick one pictures out of the shoot to have a digital of it for like 30-50$ i might be ok with that. Really I don't even know if I can do this shoot before Christmas. I only do shoots on the weekends and we only have 3 weekends until Christmas and I think I have something every weekend.

I know getting prints at cvs or target look much different than if I say order a print from mpix.. The color at mpix matches what I Post Processed it but at say target normally it is more high contrast and slightly different colors.

So what do you think maybe I can add the digital download feature to zenfoleo? And have say 50$ each for high rez digital files? I want to at least get 100$ out of a shoot minimum to make it worth my time.

[AnneWynne]

First, a sitting fee of $50 is waaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy too low, even with print sales, but especially with credit given.

But, getting back to your question...how to price digital negatives....

Price them like you would a print package (ie, 1 sheet wallets + 4-5x7's + 2-8x10's + 1 11x14)

Let your clients purchase individual digital negatives. DO NOT just give them all of your images...just the ones they purchase.

When you are doing the shoot, pull the couples out for a couple of quick shots, get the kids with their siblings, by themselves, with their cousins, etc. Put the adult children together, put the adult children with their parents....you get the drift.

What you are doing is creating more than just the "group family photo" they are hiring you to do. But DO NOT GIVE AWAY your digital files....make them purchase them as if they are purchasing a large print package.

Also, tell them where to get their images developed based upon research you have done. Have a samples book of the papers and finishes they can get through you (at a price..remember they just purchased the digital images, now they need printing) and examples of the same prints done at Walmart, Walgreens, Ritz/Wolf Camera, Target, including the instant printing and some printed off on your regular home printer (not the one you use for prints-if you have one).

They can purchase a digital negative or a print package...the price is the same. You can have a la cart ordering only after they have purchased a digital negative or a print package deal. BTW, raise your prices on the a la cart pricing to make your print packages more economical.

Hope this is helpful.

[Niresangwa]

Originally Posted by kirbinster

Those that practice photography as a business are not going to like this, but I think you guys need to join the 21st century and understand the technology and distribution methods are changing. I think you need to change your pricing models to price your time and creativity separately from the commodity which is a print. Customers don't want to pay huge markups on prints. What that means is that you can offer your work in different flavors.

One package could be a sitting fee plus editing and then prints ala carte - the old method. Another needs to be low resolution electronics - customers want that and will find it from someone else if not from you. Face it they can buy a few prints and make the low res stuff anyway.

The other method is where you make your money on the sitting fee and the edit time and then offer prints at or near the cost of the commodity. The final method, is a high charge for full detail digital images.

Comments welcomed.

I agree with Kirbinster. This isn't a client you're going to be able to make happy with your current structure, so you either bite the bullet or you just let them go. They want the digital files, someone will give them to them, and that person will enjoy spending the clients money.

The usual chorus of 'stick to your guns' will no doubt sing out soon enough, and they have the right to their opinion as much as anyone else. Sure, the client could be good for a few hundred bucks in prints and cards, but they're not going to. They're just going to go somewhere else.

Kirbinster got it right when he said you need to decide if you want to accommodate this type of client. Maybe you don't want to work with these people, and that's your prerogative, but don't expect to convert potential clients like this one to $$$ if you don't.

If you do decide to price out a print file, best you can do is figure out how much you'll be losing on your average print order and compensate for that with maybe a little bump for the convenience.

Zenfolio allows digital download of the image, so you can post up your images, have them indicate in comments which ones they want, they pay you, you activate download on the images they select for say 48 hours, then close it. No muss, no fuss.

[andyw]

Originally Posted by kirbinster

Those that practice photography as a business are not going to like this, but I think you guys need to join the 21st century and understand the technology and distribution methods are changing. I think you need to change your pricing models to price your time and creativity separately from the commodity which is a print. Customers don't want to pay huge markups on prints. What that means is that you can offer your work in different flavors.

One package could be a sitting fee plus editing and then prints ala carte - the old method. Another needs to be low resolution electronics - customers want that and will find it from someone else if not from you. Face it they can buy a few prints and make the low res stuff anyway.

The other method is where you make your money on the sitting fee and the edit time and then offer prints at or near the cost of the commodity. The final method, is a high charge for full detail digital images.

Comments welcomed.

It is not so much a case of joining the 21st century. It is a case of businesses trying to stay in business.

In some cases there was a large mark up on prints but certainly not on all.
Sure if you get your prints at Boots or Walmart then there would be a large mark-up but the images would be total crap.

The business certainly is changing but the amount of time required by the photographer has not changed, the equipment required has not changed, the skills required have not changed, if anything the skills required have increased due to the retouching customers want these days.

What has changed is the simple fact that everyone thinks that anyone with a Dslr can be a pro.

The overheads have gone up and the profit margins have come down. There are more photography businesses going to the wall than ever before. Some of them being old established businesses. NOT because the owners did not move with the times but rather because we still need to eat.

Personally if I was in the portrait and wedding business I would not offer cd's (of hi-res files). I would explain why I didn't and if the customer was insistent then I would probably tell them to find somewhere else to go.

I would offer a cd of lo-res web sized shots though (at a price) as I know that in the 21st century people like sharing their images on the web. But that would be it.

It does not matter if it is the 20th or 21st centuries, the only reason that people want cd's of hi-res files is to go to the cheapest high street printer to get their prints.
That reflects badly on the photographer when they are totally cocked up.

[theosus]

Originally Posted by kirbinster

Those that practice photography as a business are not going to like this, but I think you guys need to join the 21st century and understand the technology and distribution methods are changing. I think you need to change your pricing models to price your time and creativity separately from the commodity which is a print. Customers don't want to pay huge markups on prints. What that means is that you can offer your work in different flavors.

One package could be a sitting fee plus editing and then prints ala carte - the old method. Another needs to be low resolution electronics - customers want that and will find it from someone else if not from you. Face it they can buy a few prints and make the low res stuff anyway.

The other method is where you make your money on the sitting fee and the edit time and then offer prints at or near the cost of the commodity. The final method, is a high charge for full detail digital images.

Comments welcomed.

Completely agree. The music industry should have embraced a new distribution model years ago. People stopped wanting to pay $15 for a CD with two good songs on it, and 8 crappy filler songs. So when the MP3 and napster came out - they jumped ship. iTunes and its ilk was behind the curve. Sure, a buck a song is what we should pay - but when people got used to getting them for free, it was too late.

Its hard to justify paying a pro photographer 20 bucks for an 8x10 - when I can get the same print for three bucks at walmart or even offline from a print place.

Sure - thats a large portion of income, however, do you think selling someone one print is going to keep them from making copies? Scanners and home printers are good enough to make a pretty decent copy of a pro print (good enough for facebook or grandma), not to mention photo places that "dont ask, dont tell" about copyrights.

[scootermcq]

In my market, just about everyone provides CDs, so I do as well. Sitting fee is $200 and includes edits and CD. Then you order prints ala carte, but most just go to walmart. I hate it, but if I don't do it this way, they go to someone who will. This is a different market than the US, but there is no way I would do any business without giving up the digitals.

[bhursey]

Originally Posted by andyw

I

Personally if I was in the portrait and wedding business I would not offer cd's (of hi-res files). I would explain why I didn't and if the customer was insistent then I would probably tell them to find somewhere else to go.

I would offer a cd of lo-res web sized shots though (at a price) as I know that in the 21st century people like sharing their images on the web. But that would be it.

It does not matter if it is the 20th or 21st centuries, the only reason that people want cd's of hi-res files is to go to the cheapest high street printer to get their prints.
That reflects badly on the photographer when they are totally cocked up.

This is exactly what im afraid of them going to get their prints at the lowest price. Hence lowest quality. No way I would give them a full cd of the whole shoot but I think I do need to slightly modify my model to allow for purchase of single digital images..

Originally Posted by Niresangwa

Zenfolio allows digital download of the image, so you can post up your images, have them indicate in comments which ones they want, they pay you, you activate download on the images they select for say 48 hours, then close it. No muss, no fuss.

I was just looking at that once they pick their image I can ad that image as a product and ad it to their pice list.