Why offering "Free" isn't always a bad idea...

[Jim Poor]

Originally Posted by evader

I think most are missing the point (or don't care) this was a fixed contract...there was no option to negotiate for usage rights. It was either a take it or leave it. So to say something like $40,000 is nice but think about how much you could be making by only selling them limit rights makes absolutely no sense at all. It wasn't an option.

I agree that normally you don't give up rights to your photo's like this...but again...that is what the contract I was bidding on was for.

Anyways, I know this isn't normally how these things turn out...I just wanted to share my story

We may have missed that point, but I would venture that it is more likely that you didn't even ask.

If it works for you, great. I personally would have at least tried to convince them to go with limited rights for a lower fee so that I'd be free to make even more money in the long run. The fee you got / are getting for unlimited rights just wouldn't do it for me, but whatever floats your boat . . .

[kyteflyer]

Originally Posted by evader

...
That's an extra $40,000 in my pocket...if that makes me an idiot...I'm ok with that

I say very well done. Sometimes it pays to just go with what your instinct says is the right thing to do. Do you get attributed for the photographs even though you don't "own" them?

[Xposurepro]

Originally Posted by Jim Poor

We may have missed that point, but I would venture that it is more likely that you didn't even ask.

I have to agree. I've won a great deal of bids over the years and it's very common for them to initially say "we need all the rights" .. it's even more common for them to later say "ok we actually only need all rights for the next 12 months." .. the only way you find out is talking to them .. and before you say I'll do it cheaper for 12 month exclusivity just talk about their needs and what you can offer to fulfill those needs .. use the cheaper route as a last alternative if they are not going for the deal. And never use the excuse .. they wanted me to simply place a bid to their guidelines without talking to anyone or negotiating. There is always a person in charge to contact. They can normally be negotiated with and if nothing else by contacting them ... they remember your name better when it comes time to sift through the bids.

No slams intended from the above .. congrats on your $40K .. just sharing some experience for future bids.

[Verticalways]

That's a nice story you have their congrats!

Though for us who haven't gotten to that road where did these companies find your photos?

[danbaileyphoto]

Congratulations on your big job! I think I remember being one of those guys who said "Don't give up all rights...!"

At any rate, take what you learned from the experience and go from there. You have more knowledge for next time. Do also keep reading and becoming informed about the industry.

[theosus]

Originally Posted by kyteflyer

I say very well done. Sometimes it pays to just go with what your instinct says is the right thing to do. Do you get attributed for the photographs even though you don't "own" them?

+1
I think you did well - and I am also one of a breed that says in this case they SHOULD own the rights to do with those photos whatever they want. Because they hired you for the job, of COURSE they should own the pictures. I think the notion of photographers rights goes a little far sometimes, and in a lot of cases, the person who paid should be able to do more with what they bought.

[CharlieJ]

As the old adage says, "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush". Taking the $40k "in hand" is worth A LOT more than the possibility that you might one day sell the photos to someone else for another project ("the bush").

In a perfect world, you should never give away the rights to your photos. In a world where people need to have real currency to pay bills and expand their business, $40k in hand is a good reason (IMHO) to allow an organization to have the rights to a few days worth of what we essentially turn out to be local nature shots or tourists enjoying Fall photos.

If they offer you another contract next year, ask to retain rights, but don't offer to work for less. If they balk, then decide whether you want to hold out and possibly loose the contract in order to retain rights.

Right now, enjoy your good fortune and let us know how the shoots go.

[Jim Bryant]

My point is what I've been trying to make all along. SO one of your photos is pictured up by a nation wide (or even world wide) travel ad campaign. Where you could stand to make $12K off one photo, you only made $40,000 on just how many images did you give them full right too? Badddddddd deal, bad dealllllllllll. But like I mentioned before, it's your business. Besides, next year when the contract times comes around, you already gave them rights to all the images you shot this year. They could select and use another set you've already provided. Choose wisely with what you made with the first $40,000, it might not be there next year.

Originally Posted by Jim Bryant

My point is what I've been trying to make all along. SO one of your photos is pictured up by a nation wide (or even world wide) travel ad campaign. Where you could stand to make $12K off one photo, you only made $40,000 on just how many images did you give them full right too? Badddddddd deal, bad dealllllllllll. But like I mentioned before, it's your business. Besides, next year when the contract times comes around, you already gave them rights to all the images you shot this year. They could select and use another set you've already provided. Choose wisely with what you made with the first $40,000, it might not be there next year.

And how many $12,000 photos have you sold this year?

[pkd14u]

evader, thank you so much for your story. I get so tired of the holier than thou attitude that some photographers have. If those of who aspire to become pros want a chance to get anywhere we must start somewhere. The best way to get the word out is for more people to see our work. Sometimes that means giving it away for cheap or darned close.

Congrats on your new job!