What’s Your Preference?

BellaAz · #1 (**permalink**) 09-09-2010, 03:14 AM

Having issue with a past so called "friend" who invited me to 2nd shoot a wedding, I did it as a volunteer and to help her....I offered to give her a CD with watermarks of my photo's to give to the bride and groom, if they wanted any they could contact me for them etc. I was not included in the contract of her deal, and it was very last min. ( 2 days before) the wedding, and the brides mother was NOT told about me coming etc. Today I got a call from the Brides mom wanting my photo's because she had a signed contract with the primary photog, I explained my biz and ethnics and she is willing to purchase them, after explaining my position......

So my question is I have them on my website and from all that I've learned and understood they are mine and copyright of my work etc??

Lesson LEARNED believe ME!
I can't believe as an artist people would think to ask for another photographer for their photo's on a CD at no price!! Esp since the wedding was 3 hours round trip, and didn't pay for 1 cent of my time, service or travel!

SHAME SHAME!!!!

OsmosisStudios · #2 (**permalink**) 09-09-2010, 03:28 AM

Without a contract, it's hard to say who gets what. THe main photog can't legally claim the photos you shot as theirs, though they could argue that, by having you there, it was implied that the photos would become theirs.

The mother of the bride needs to understand that, essentially, she "contracted" the main photographer who then "sub-contracted" you. It's still YOUR work.

The images are YOURS, that's for sure. Whether you can use them for promotion is another issue. Your best bet would be to get a model release from the bridge and groom, perhaps in exchange for a discount on their order (to help ease tensions and smooth things over).

In the future: GET A CONTRACT. I really cant stress that enough. Who gets what: Rights, usage, payment, etc. What they're expected to do or not do, what you're to do, what you're expected to deliver, etc.

BellaAz · #3 (**permalink**) 09-09-2010, 03:55 AM

YES I agree thanks for the reply!!! The mother of the bride was fine with buying the photo's at a very low fee, I did it more for the principle of the matter and explained there should have been a revised contract with her primary photog and there should have been a contract with my FRIEND too, I learned my lesson that even though you THINK you have a friend and you are doing them a FAVOR it could turn south and to always protect yourself!!! SAD but TRUE!
The value of what my "word of mouth" is more than those photo's and I don't mind giving them to her but the so called photog should have told her about me, should have made it clear on what she WANTED and allowed me to agree or disagree....etc. not to assume she would get them all bc she bought me a 8.00 lunch and I drove 3 hours to help her and stayed for 6+ hours to shoot the wedding, not to mention a lot MORE!

gturner · #4 (**permalink**) 09-09-2010, 01:33 PM

Just deal with he bride or mother and recoup what ever you can directly from them
If they don't want anything, then take the hit on the chin (school fees)

gturner · #5 (**permalink**) 09-09-2010, 01:33 PM

Just deal with he bride or mother and recoup what ever you can directly from them
If they don't want anything, then take the hit on the chin (school fees)

bhursey · #6 (**permalink**) 09-09-2010, 03:58 PM

By being a second shooter you were technically higherd to work under the name of the photographers business. Even though you were not paid. Normally it is implied that you still own the images but the main photographer provides them to the bride in the same way the provide their own images. Yes you should of had a contract with the main photographer but this is they way it normally works and the way it works with my photography assistances. Next time get paid. I normally offer 150-200 for second photographers and they are able to keep the images and own the copyright with me the permission to distribute and sell the images with my images. They can still use them for their portfolio I normally ask them to not post images of them on on their blogs and sites until I provide them to the bride and the bride has bought a packages or prints. I found out brides like to copy images and post them on facebook. So basically for the money I paid them I got their time and work and the right to sell the images. Normally its frowned on for the second photographers to sell the images they took at a wedding they were hired by the photographer and not the bride.

The second Photographers always provide the images right after the wedding normally by dumping the cards to a laptop. Then I do all the Post Processing..... Last wedding I had 3000 photos from the 3 photographers I had including me. Narrowed it down to ~1000 but it took me lets just say about 5 weeks to edit. To me that is more work and time than just shooting the wedding... Normally most of the stress is on the main photographer because they are the ones that have the responsibility to get all the shots the bride require.

Jim Poor · #7 (**permalink**) 09-09-2010, 07:23 PM

You're very nice to your second shooters. The way it works around here is that the primary normally get all the rights to the photos and the second gets the rights to use in a portfolio.

It's normally "work for hire" so the copyright goes to the one doing the hiring.

bhursey · #8 (**permalink**) 09-09-2010, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Poor

You're very nice to your second shooters. The way it works around here is that the primary normally get all the rights to the photos and the second gets the rights to use in a portfolio.

It's normally "work for hire" so the copyright goes to the one doing the hiring.

Most of my second shooters are very good friends who I know their skill and we normally have a good understanding, but if its a outside my friend chain I probably will do it the way you do. I really don't like to go out side of people I dont know and trust.

My favorite second shooter is John Wallom my best friend so might as well plug him

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jwallom/

Jim Poor · #9 (**permalink**) 09-09-2010, 07:40 PM

Okay, so then it's not the norm and probably not advice to be given to a new photographer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhursey

Most of my second shooters are very good friends who I know their skill and we normally have a good understanding, but if its a outside my friend chain I probably will do it the way you do.