Question about doing my first commercial shoot

[Ensleygirl]

I tried a search, but I can't find anything like this particular situation. I have some acquaintances that own a really successful tattoo studio in my area. I have actually gotten a couple of tattoos there. Last week, one of the owners asked me to come by because they are interested in me doing some photography for them. Here's what they are interested in:

A shoot every 2-3 months of their top 20-25 tattoos (close to 2 hours or so one afternoon plus, of course my editing time)
A high res CD (for web advertising, printing, displaying in the shop, etc) to at least one image from each tattoo
This is the part I am wondering about: They would also like me to release the images for them to submit to magazines for possible publishing and contests.

I know that I would be comfortable offering the first two (although I do not offer high res CDs for portrait sessions), but the last request is throwing me. It seems like a reasonable request because it is a business promotion opportunity for them, but I don't know what my part would be, other than pricing it right, which I think we have figured out (see below). Do I draw up a contract that gives them full rights, as long as I get the photography credit? Does that even make sense?

They are willing to pay me or offer me tattoo credit (which would be great since I want to get my back piece finished), and then at any point that I would rather have the cash, we can do that. They are, so far, being really great and open about what they want and what they expect. They have offered to pay me/credit me the same price they charge per hour for tattoos, which I think is a good deal.

Any advice would be much appreciated! Thanks!!

[moscowmartin]

Rather than sell them the full copyright have a contract written up giving them permission to use the photos as stated for a set time period (two years or so) but that you would keep the copyright and are free to use or sell the image, though I would stay away from the same magazines and contests they are going for.

[OsmosisStudios]

Agree to it, but add a clause that says that the contest cannot be a photo rights grab. If they don't know what that means, then you could have it say that you have to see the contest rules before the image can be submitted. To protect your own work.

[summerbl4ck]

Originally Posted by Ensleygirl

Here's what they are interested in:

A shoot every 2-3 months of their top 20-25 tattoos (close to 2 hours or so one afternoon plus, of course my editing time)
A high res CD (for web advertising, printing, displaying in the shop, etc) to at least one image from each tattoo

I know that I would be comfortable offering the first two (although I do not offer high res CDs for portrait sessions)...

I agree with other recos to make sure your contract protects the copyright of your images in any submissions and you should get a photo credit whenever your images are used in their advertising.

But I just wanted to add a comment regarding the high-res CD and your note that you don't offer such for your portrait work--I do a lot of work with photographers in my job and high-res images are a must. That's the reason I hire a commercial photographer so that I have images to use in my marketing materials, and high-res images are needed for any print work. I wouldn't work with a photographer otherwise.

Good luck!

[Jim Bryant]

Never, never give anyone full rights to your images. Give them limited rights for web, and promo purposes. I always give one year rights.

[Ensleygirl]

Thank you all for your comments. We have been out of town or I would have gotten back here sooner. This is so new to me. I have always done family/newborn/children/maternity shoots, so I have no idea about this stuff. Is there anyway someone can link me to samples of contracts so I will know how to word it to protect myself?

Originally Posted by summerbl4ck

I agree with other recos to make sure your contract protects the copyright of your images in any submissions and you should get a photo credit whenever your images are used in their advertising.

But I just wanted to add a comment regarding the high-res CD and your note that you don't offer such for your portrait work--I do a lot of work with photographers in my job and high-res images are a must. That's the reason I hire a commercial photographer so that I have images to use in my marketing materials, and high-res images are needed for any print work. I wouldn't work with a photographer otherwise.

Good luck!

I did want to specifically address your comment about high-res CDs. Do you offer high-res Cds for portrait sessions such as family/children/newborn/maternity, which are the kind of shoots I do? The more I research the more I find out that most portrait photographers in my area do not sell high-res Cds, and the ones who do, sell them for thousands of dollars and only after a client has purchased several hundred dollars of prints. I know this is probably a whole different thread, but I thought we might discuss it since it was brought up.

Thanks again everyone!

[lonni]

You dont need to hand over the rights to your images for the customer to use them for advertising or printing etc.

Commercial shooting is different to portraits as the general purpose is to get images for advertising.

It is not always practical to have a photo credit in all the advertising and i do not know a lot of commercial shooters who push it. You need to think of it like stock work, you get paid for your time and permission to use your image, essentially you are licenseing your work.

Just make sure you have a good contract, make sure it states what they can and can not use the image for. Make sure you state that the image can not be sold or distributed in any form, whether digitally or on merchandise like tshirts mugs etc. This is pretty standard so they should not have a problem.

I would not stress too much about the competition thing as they wont be entering photography comps but tatoo comps, which shouldnt be photo grabs, more than likely they will be industry comps. Your image will probably be used in industry mags if it wins. It doesnt hurt to get them to check the fine print though.

I sometimes do simmilar shoots for hair dressers and make up artists, they enter comps for their work and sometimes my photo is displayed in an industry mag or website, sometimes with a photo credit sometimes not.

I woull also reccomend carefully considering a time limit its a bit of a double edged sword. I personally choose never to add a time limit, but most of what i shoot dates any way so the clients are unlikely to be useing the images in a years time any way, exept for portfolio work.

If the tattoo studio is always updating then i would suggest that this is also the case for you. Clients get a bit worried when there are too many restrictions on how they use the image they bought. Remember that commercial work is different to protrait work.

HTH

[lonni]

Sorry i forgot to add if you want to look at sample contracts go to the stock photo websites and see what their conditions are. Just copy and paste what is relevant and re write if nessesary to make sense.

As long as it states specifically that they can not sell or distribute your image you should be safe. You also need to specify that they are the only people who have permission to use your image and that permission in not transferable.

You might also want to add something about not being allowed to enter your photo in any competition that requires the rights to your image.

HTH

[Ensleygirl]

Originally Posted by lonni

You dont need to hand over the rights to your images for the customer to use them for advertising or printing etc.

Commercial shooting is different to portraits as the general purpose is to get images for advertising.

It is not always practical to have a photo credit in all the advertising and i do not know a lot of commercial shooters who push it. You need to think of it like stock work, you get paid for your time and permission to use your image, essentially you are licenseing your work.

Just make sure you have a good contract, make sure it states what they can and can not use the image for. Make sure you state that the image can not be sold or distributed in any form, whether digitally or on merchandise like tshirts mugs etc. This is pretty standard so they should not have a problem.

I would not stress too much about the competition thing as they wont be entering photography comps but tatoo comps, which shouldnt be photo grabs, more than likely they will be industry comps. Your image will probably be used in industry mags if it wins. It doesnt hurt to get them to check the fine print though.

I sometimes do simmilar shoots for hair dressers and make up artists, they enter comps for their work and sometimes my photo is displayed in an industry mag or website, sometimes with a photo credit sometimes not.

I woull also reccomend carefully considering a time limit its a bit of a double edged sword. I personally choose never to add a time limit, but most of what i shoot dates any way so the clients are unlikely to be useing the images in a years time any way, exept for portfolio work.

If the tattoo studio is always updating then i would suggest that this is also the case for you. Clients get a bit worried when there are too many restrictions on how they use the image they bought. Remember that commercial work is different to protrait work.

HTH

Originally Posted by lonni

Sorry i forgot to add if you want to look at sample contracts go to the stock photo websites and see what their conditions are. Just copy and paste what is relevant and re write if nessesary to make sense.

As long as it states specifically that they can not sell or distribute your image you should be safe. You also need to specify that they are the only people who have permission to use your image and that permission in not transferable.

You might also want to add something about not being allowed to enter your photo in any competition that requires the rights to your image.

HTH

Thank you! Very very helpful!!