Pricing and Quantity

[prince]

Hello Everyone,
I am working on the pricing structure for my photography services. I researched my local photogs and their pricing, read quite a few articles and discussion threads on different pricing strategies, I still have the dilemma of the number of pictures I should offer in my package. I will be doing mainly people and pet portraits.

How do you decide on that? Is it a good practice to have a time frame in your package? I want to be flexible and not have a time limit, but then how many pictures can I offer in "unlimited" time?

I hope am not rambling my thoughts on the quantity and time dilemma..

Please let me know if I need to be more clear and/or specific.

Thanks,

[BigFuzzy]

To me it's pretty simple.. I offer prints individually (for portrait sessions) by size of print but also offer a CD package which averages between 20-25euros per photo depending if I like the client or not..

What I like about offering CDs of selected, fully processed prints, is that you can charge whatever you want per image and they do with it as they wish. So, if they only print basic small prints of the images you've sold them for 25euros each, you've made more than you would have had you printed them yourself at that size. (But the opposite is true if they print really big 'cause you may lose chance at more profits)

[Niresangwa]

I generally work only with digital images (If I print, I do it at cost, but charge for my time formatting and uploading and shipping) and work on a model of 20 per hour of shooting. Almost all of my images are highly processed.

For me, turn around for a simple portrait/lifestyle 60-90 minute shoot is within 12-24 hours to the first time they see them, and their cd is in the mail within 3 days. Larger events full online port is up 24-48 hours, Weddings and large events full online port is up within 3 days, with images mailed within 10 days.

I think your time line will be established by figuring out how long it takes you to finish an image in the format you want to provide (processed digital, lab print) factoring in how many images you'll provide from the session.

Seems to me a general expectation is about 20 which is why I chose it.

[prince]

Originally Posted by BigFuzzy

To me it's pretty simple.. I offer prints individually (for portrait sessions) by size of print but also offer a CD package which averages between 20-25euros per photo depending if I like the client or not..)

Thanks for your reply. I like the part "depending if I like the client" How many photos do you offer in one session and how long is the session in case you have a time limit?

Originally Posted by Niresangwa

Seems to me a general expectation is about 20 which is why I chose it.

Seems like a good quantity. I plan to give them a range that way am not forced to give them "not-so-good" photos just to fill the quantity expectation. Your turnover is very quick compared to what I've seen. Good job!! Thanks for your tips.

[BigFuzzy]

Originally Posted by prince

Thanks for your reply. I like the part "depending if I like the client" How many photos do you offer in one session and how long is the session in case you have a time limit?

I always say "one hour session" if that means we get 5 shots or 500, they get to see them all (after deleting the real bad ones). So, whatever comes out of the 1 hour is what they can pick from. The problem with me is, , I love taking photos, so unless I am on a strict schedule (or they are), I tend to bleed over the one hour mark.. especially if things are going well. I don't mind, because in the end, I get good photos, they're happy that I wasn't "hey, 60min are up, get the F out!", and with them happy, word-of-mouth is good (unless the next one expects more than 60min). I think you'll find that at first you'll shoot a lot with fewer 'zingers' but later you'll shoot fewer photos but with more keepers.

In the end, they can buy prints of as many as they want or as few as they want, or I offer photos on CD for the above mentioned prices (approx 25E per file).

I hope that helps.

This thread has other good ideas, and I also explain how I post things online for the client.

[GadgetRick]

I don't think I'd put a number on the quantity (I don't). What happens if the session just wasn't that good because the subject(s) just weren't into the shoot? This happened to me recently. Don't paint yourself into a corner like that.

Also, someone mentioned the do prints for cost. Not exactly sure why anyone would do that. I'd certainly make a profit on ALL of the prints ordered.

I usually do portraits for $50 sitting/setup fee for an hour of shooting. They get a free 8x10 for that. My price is cheap for where I am but I don't have the customer base who will pay the full $100 for an up front fee. I charge different amounts for prints based on the size and how many they are ordering.

[Niresangwa]

Originally Posted by GadgetRick

Also, someone mentioned the do prints for cost. Not exactly sure why anyone would do that. I'd certainly make a profit on ALL of the prints ordered.

*raises hand* ..that was me, sir.

As to the 'why?'; because I built my pricing model to get my profit up front, rather than a) rely on print orders to make my money, and b) though I don't particularly agree with it, clients want digital files and their perceived 'freedom' to print where they want, and c) when I'm making my money up front, it doesn't sit well with me to sell a $2 print for $20.

If they want it done, I do it for them, (again, charging an extra chunk for my time uploading and pay shipping). I don't do proofs for my clients, they get the images I decide on and those images are processed the way I want to process them - the client gets what I give, and they know that up front. So I bypass the proofing stage, and the sit down ordering stage. I shoot, process, post the web stuff, mail it out and done.

Am I missing out on a few extra bucks on print sales? Maybe. But for how quickly I can turn around assignments and turn my attention to the next one, it's worth it to me.

Weekend before last, I had three in the space of two days. Each one was turned around and posted before I headed to the next one. By the time I went to bed on sunday night, I had a large sheaf of cash in hand, three very happy clients who got to see their images within hours of the shoot being done and best of all, I had no work to do on monday morning aside from burning three cds and dropping them in the mail... no emails going back and forth, no more editing, no phone calls and waiting on clients making decisions.

[GadgetRick]

Fair enough although you still are walking away from potential profit. Honestly, I don't care if I never sell a print. I offer files for a price (either built-in or extra depending on situation). I'd rather if they printed it themselves for many situations. I tell them, if they want anything smaller than 8x10, they're better off doing it themselves. I just don't want to be bothered with the smaller sizes when they can get them done so inexpensively locally. I'd rather--like you--make it on the shoot/files.

I have also just started doing league photo shoots, which, of course, require prints. That's where you're making the profit. So that's a different situation.

I just feel, if someone wants me to deal with the prints, I should make something for that hassle. I'm dealing with one situation where they (apparently) didn't receive a print I included for free in their shoot even though I sent it personally. Stuff happens, gets lost in the mail, etc. Now I've got to spend time dealing with that--eating into my profit.

The other side is when the client sees the photos in print--from a good print lab--and they're blown away. Makes you look even better.

I can understand both sides I guess...

[prince]

Originally Posted by BigFuzzy

I always say "one hour session" if that means we get 5 shots or 500, they get to see them all (after deleting the real bad ones).

In the end, they can buy prints of as many as they want or as few as they want, or I offer photos on CD for the above mentioned prices (approx 25E per file).

I hope that helps.

This thread has other good ideas, and I also explain how I post things online for the client.

Thanks BigFuzzy. I checked out the other thread too. I took some tips that was in sync with me. I think I will stick to the time factor and be flexible as you said without explicitly stating it. I am amazed at your per file cost.

Originally Posted by GadgetRick

I don't think I'd put a number on the quantity (I don't). What happens if the session just wasn't that good because the subject(s) just weren't into the shoot? This happened to me recently. Don't paint yourself into a corner like that.

Also, someone mentioned the do prints for cost. Not exactly sure why anyone would do that. I'd certainly make a profit on ALL of the prints ordered.

I usually do portraits for $50 sitting/setup fee for an hour of shooting. They get a free 8x10 for that. My price is cheap for where I am but I don't have the customer base who will pay the full $100 for an up front fee. I charge different amounts for prints based on the size and how many they are ordering.

I am trying to gauge my market too. Majority here are mid-income group. I will take out the quantity from my site too (under construction) for the reasons you mentioned. Thanks Rick.

Originally Posted by Niresangwa

*raises hand* ..that was me, sir.

As to the 'why?'; because I built my pricing model to get my profit up front, rather than a) rely on print orders to make my money, and b) though I don't particularly agree with it, clients want digital files and their perceived 'freedom' to print where they want, and c) when I'm making my money up front, it doesn't sit well with me to sell a $2 print for $20.

I like this idea. I based my pricing on a similar model.

Originally Posted by GadgetRick

Fair enough although you still are walking away from potential profit. Honestly, I don't care if I never sell a print. I offer files for a price (either built-in or extra depending on situation). I'd rather if they printed it themselves for many situations. I tell them, if they want anything smaller than 8x10, they're better off doing it themselves. I just don't want to be bothered with the smaller sizes when they can get them done so inexpensively locally. I'd rather--like you--make it on the shoot/files.

I have also just started doing league photo shoots, which, of course, require prints. That's where you're making the profit. So that's a different situation.

I just feel, if someone wants me to deal with the prints, I should make something for that hassle. I'm dealing with one situation where they (apparently) didn't receive a print I included for free in their shoot even though I sent it personally. Stuff happens, gets lost in the mail, etc. Now I've got to spend time dealing with that--eating into my profit.

The other side is when the client sees the photos in print--from a good print lab--and they're blown away. Makes you look even better.

I can understand both sides I guess...

Rick, I agree, pricing will vary from assignment to assignment and market to market

To everyone, I find your answers very very helpful and they are making my decision making process clearer.

This is something I came up with.. Most of the portrait sessions in my area are in package format, where clients are charged a minimum of $100 for one to two hour sessions and given some prints. Highest minimum I found started at $600 with pretty much the same quantity but more time.

I came up with this to strike a balance considering the local market and my skills.

I am planning to offer only CD/DVD in 1-1.5 hours session for $300, but am giving high resolution photos, which lot of them don't. Clients can get the prints in whatever size they want and the quantity they want. Also, for the first-time customers I am planning to offer 25-30% discount and 20% to referrals that actually book the session.

What do you think?

[Niresangwa]

Originally Posted by prince

I am planning to offer only CD/DVD in 1-1.5 hours session for $300, but am giving high resolution photos, which lot of them don't. Clients can get the prints in whatever size they want and the quantity they want. Also, for the first-time customers I am planning to offer 25-30% discount and 20% to referrals that actually book the session.

What do you think?

That's almost identical to what I use, and works out roughly $80 an hour including my behind the computer time. Obviously it's a little lower once I figure in the rest of the CoDB.

I thought about offering discounts, but ultimately didn't and won't. referral discounts and everything else just feels too complicated for me, I'd rather give them a free print as Rick described above. The low cost of prints for us photographers makes it feasible without sacrificing up to what in your model would be $100 discount.

The one thing I came up with which only time will tell if it was a smart idea, was to invent an idea that I termed Legacy Pricing, which allows a client to lock in the initial price they paid in perpetuity. To me it demonstrated a way to show loyalty to the client, and the more trust and loyalty they put in me over the years, the greater the pay off for them...

...though I might puke in my mouth when in 2028 I have to shoot a kid's senior portfolio for $400 because I shot them as a baby this summer. I'm sure in 2028 $400 isn't going to help maintain my Hover-Car and robot maid.