\\ I have an idea... would like YOUR input //

[CharlieJ]

First, THANK YOU to all who have replied and offered their input. I sincerely respect every one of you for being forthright and making me think this situation through. But, with 265+ views, I'm sure there are more people who could comment, if they just would. Come on... don't lurk... speak up!

After reading what everyone has written, I've come up with a first draft of what I might offer. PLEASE read over it and give me your feedback. I am not in a hurry, but once I start a project, I want to get into it and get it moving. Now seems to be a good time to get this thing moving.

Here's the first draft proposal:

1) Offer the customer a tiered package of hours I will spend with them, as their personal photographer for the day/event. Go anywhere, take pics as they like (not just white shirt & jeans portraits on the beach at sunset); posed, candid; anything they want - as long as it's legal.

= $80/hr for 1-2 hours (2 hour minimum for location further 50 miles away from my home)
= $70/hr for 3-5 hours
= $60/hr for 6-8 hours

2) Client pays all expenses for location photos (admission fees for dinner cruise, shows, amusement parks, etc.)

3) Client will receive a CD (or should it be a DVD?) of hand-picked photos (800px long side) with my logo and rights to post online, etc -- but not to print.

4) Retouched, printed photos subject to a normal pricing structure (as determined by local photographers' rates). Lead time for retouched, printed photos would be two weeks (giving me a little breathing room).

5) Considering the possibility of offering a website that links the photos to trinket sales, for the customer to buy hats, t-shirts, whatever else they might like. (I don't know the logistics of doing this sort of thing, so it might be cost prohibitive on my part due to some places charging monthly fees for an online "storefront".)

How does that sound for a first draft proposal? What have I left out?

Keep in mind, we're still talking about a weekend job for me to do, on the side - not my primary source of income.

If I have gotten it all wrong, tell me. If you think I'm heading in the right direction, tell me. If you think something should be tweaked a different way, by all means, tell me. I am looking for your input, expertise and experience to shape what I should do to get this thing going... and to do it right. One thing I don't wanna do is low-ball the professionals or step into their mainline business and bother them. I want to supply a niche need that most local pros don't want to, can't or don't have the time to handle.

[RLucas]

Looks like you have been doing your homework Charlie! The 265 views may be people wanting to steal your idea!

As the input I gave is way off base, I think I will reserve my comment for people in the know. I have learned quite a bit in this short little thread! Thanks for posting it.

[Jim Poor]

1. Better
2. Yep, don't forget parking.
3. CD or DVD depends on the number of photos. I can fit roughly 80 high resolution photos on a CD
4. Two weeks sounds OK for me, but I do this full time. You may consider more time if you work a lot in your day jog or if you plan on multiple clients in a given time frame.
5. Lots of places to choose from on this. Some are more full service than others. Exposuremanager.com springs to mind.

[CharlieJ]

Originally Posted by Jim Poor

1. Better
2. Yep, don't forget parking.
3. CD or DVD depends on the number of photos. I can fit roughly 80 high resolution photos on a CD
4. Two weeks sounds OK for me, but I do this full time. You may consider more time if you work a lot in your day jog or if you plan on multiple clients in a given time frame.
5. Lots of places to choose from on this. Some are more full service than others. Exposuremanager.com springs to mind.

Jim,
THANKS for ALL your comments. They have been a big help. #1 - OK, so the pricing structure is better. But, is it good enough for a sideline, weekend only proposition? #2 - I had not considered parking. Many places don't charge, but more and more are starting to charge, especially along the ocean front. Thanks for the reminder. #3 - I'll leave that open and provide whichever works for the number of good photos the customer receives. #4 - Since I will have to purchase PhotoShop, learn some basics and then put them into practice, I think you're right. I might want to allow a little more time, at least in the beginning. #5 - I'll check out exposuremanager.com... and google others. If you (or anyone else) knows of a really good site, with low costs, please point me in the right direction. THANKS again!

Note to Luke: You weren't way off base at all. Your comments prompted others and all are considered helpful. So, don't hold your tongue. Speak up... that's what the forums are all about -- especially when someone specifically requests input and feedback. THANKS!

[tzimmerman]

I like it...I see value there for the customer and you. I still wonder if 480 bucks for 8 hours is too low, but when you are not figuring in any post processing time besides weeding photos and running and action to resize and put your logo, it helps alot.

One other thing I thought of, in the contract I would stipulate a limited time to order pictures, and stipulate whether you intend to archive them indefinitely in case they lose or destroy the originals, or if they will be kept for a certain amount of time and then destroyed. If it were me I would keep them forever along with all my other photos, but stipulate they have 3 months to order any print or additional DVD's, after that if prints or additional copies of the pictures are requested, there is a $50 fee to find and reprocess the pictures. Someday someones house will burn down, and you will be contacted for another copy, and its good to have everyones expectations on the same page at contract time. This also gives them a concrete time for the beginning they have to have prints ordered if they want them, otherwise people like to procrastinate.

[BCampbell]

The one thing I didn't see in any ofthe cost analyses is TAXES.

I skimmed, so maybe I missed it. But you want to put away at least 1/3rd of your earnings in an (interest-bearing) account so you have a cushion for taxes at the end of the year.

That means that you're only taking home, at most, 66% of any number you come up with. $60/hour for 8 hours may sound okay until you realize that it's actually $40. And that you'll have prep and processing time, at least another half day, if not a full day. So where you might be thinking that you're getting $480 for a day's work, that's not true:

8 hours shooting @ $60/hour = $480
8 hours back-end @ $0/hour = $0
Total: $480
Minus tax account: $320
$320 / 16 = $20/hour

Can you afford to run a photography business on $20/hour when you're also buying a minimum of 2 meals on each of these shoots? This doesn't take into account other factors -- travel, wear and tear on your equipment, etc.

You're free to price however you like, but you really need to take into account ALL of your costs. Search online for some CODB calculators, or talk to a spe******t. There are plenty more "hidden" costs that will totally blindside you once you actually get out there.

[CharlieJ]

I want to thank everyone once again for all the advice and comments. Out of respect for my professional photographer friend (GG), we had a chat Friday afternoon. I didn't wanna step on his toes or piss him off by doing anything in the area of photography for hire. I'd rather not do this than loose him as a friend.
The good news - He said he thinks this is a good idea that I should pursue. He and the other local area pro photog I know have NO issues with my filling this niche.

So, I'm off to register a domain name, purchase my business license, setup a Facebook fan page, get setup with a photo printing outfit, order some business cards and start advertising. [This is where you step in and say, "Charlie, you also need to make sure you..."]

My wife and kids are ALL in and even ready to help, as needed. Again, THANK YOU to all who offered advice. I hope this thread will assist others who might be considering this type of venture.

I also want to encourage any ADDITIONAL ADVICE you might have to offer. God bless and take care!
CharlieJ

[candidrachel]

I think its a great idea! It's something that I have been planning to do for over a year too! I want to adopt a completly fly-on-the-wall approach capturing those fleeting moments and recording a comprehensive record of their day. Days out at the beach, zoo, theme park or even just a country stroll.

I do think you are too cheap. I'd charge £500 per day (8 hours) and for that they will get a 30 page hardback photobook showing all hightlights, A4 glossy print mounted and frames and CD of low res outtakes.

Another "in the pipeline" is A Day in the Life of..." candid moments from breakfast til bedtime. Again, capturing those fleeting, intimate moments that would otherwise be missed and is also important for parents to have true photos of how they remember their kids whether sulking, frowning, or throwing tantrums as those are the moments that they remember best.

[julieanne]

I'll have a go with my 2 cents, even though I don't really know what I'm talking about.

I'm a 28 year old who works in education, so I'm not rolling in money. Initially, I had the thought that there's no way I could afford the price, especially after spending the money to go on vacation. However, I could swing $80 for an hour if there was something important going on. I think you've got a chance to hit the upper level with longer hours, but also those that want good photos but don't have a lot of extra money.

Photoboothguy had some valid points, that people that care about the photos will have their own equipment, and that taking photos is part of the fun. I absolutely agree. However, being behind the camera also means that I'm withdrawn from a lot of what's going on, because I'm seeing it through the lens. I also hate giving my camera to strangers, because odds are it'll be zoomed way out or fuzzy or something less than acceptable.

Here's an example...My nephew has never been to the beach. When/if I'm there with them, I'd rather play with him in the sand and enjoy the moment, instead of being behind the camera most of the time. I think it would be great to hire someone for an hour so I could enjoy that time and be in the photos.

I almost forgot! I really like the idea of getting low resolution images on CD. I don't typically print all my photos anyway, and most end up in online photo albums. It's great that you can get all the pics to show others, but then pick the favorites to be printed.

Best of luck with your business! I hope you have lots of success and find more people than you need.

[proes456]

Hi there,

I am trying to put myself in the shoes of your future customer and honestly I am not sure if I would like to have someone standing "next" to me for a whole day, specially if I know that I paid big bucks for 1 week and would rather spend that time with my family.
Don't get me wrong I am not saying that this is a bad idea, not at all. I think that I would pay for such a service but would rather consider an hourly rate, meaning that I (the customer) can decide how long it will take and how much I will pay, this will give them the opportunity to manage their holiday budget. That said, if the photographer offers me that service for like $30/hour I'd start asking myself some questions in the way that I am not sure if he knows what he does (too cheap). Personally I would suggest a more "semi-professional"rate and if needed you can always lower it depending on the customers wallet. ;-) this will give the customer the feeling that he did a good deal and will enjoy the session/picture even more

Anyways, wish you all the best and like other people I think that is a good idea and that it has some very good potential.

Good luck mate.

Cheers