Who owns the rights to photographs taken at an auto race

[garys427]

Hi All,
I have been going to Watkins Glen in upstate NY since the early 60's for Formula One and other series and have literally thousands of photographs taken there. I was on the WG forums and somebody asked the question as to who owns the rights to the photographs. The answer was:
That's a good question and one that we get every so often.

We (WGI) own the rights to any photo taken here at the track. This applies to basically any photo dating back to when the track opened in 1957. There is no problem displaying them on a website simply to show other people but you need a licensing agreement with us and our parent company (ISC) in order to sell them or use them for promotional purposes. If this is something you would like to explore further please send us an email at racing@theglen.com.

Hope you find this helpful.

-WGI Moderator

That just doesn't sound correct to me. There is nothing in print on the order form, brochure or the tickets stating anything to that effect. I'm wondering just what your thoughts are. Thanks,
Gary

[OsmosisStudios]

If it's on their website, it's fair game. They *are* warning you in advance.

[jpitz31]

This is very much true. Welcome to the world of copyright. There is a company out there that owns the complete photography rights to any event where there are a large amount of public runners. You cannot publish any images from these events.

Motorcycle motocross events are the same way. You have to get permission from the promoter of the event if you want to sell images.

The teams have large amounts of money tied up into marking their own brand, why should they let anyone make some money off of their images.

There are other events and things you can shoot to make money off of. Go to any micro stock agency web site and read their forums on what you can legally take pictures and submit for sale.

Thanks

Joe

[garys427]

The reply states 'any' photo. So you and I go to a race there and I take a picture of you at sunset with the track in the background and they own the rights? I don't buy that. I understand what you're saying about the teams but the language that a moderator used seems unrealistic. And for the record, there is no statement to that effect on their website either.
Thanks for the replies.

[BigVinnie]

This is not unusual. There are many places where a property release is required. Any place that is access controlled can and generally do place commercial use restrictions.

You can pretty much assume it is the norm rather than the exception.

Originally Posted by garys427

The reply states 'any' photo. So you and I go to a race there and I take a picture of you at sunset with the track in the background and they own the rights? I don't buy that. I understand what you're saying about the teams but the language that a moderator used seems unrealistic. And for the record, there is no statement to that effect on their website either.
Thanks for the replies.

Yep.

I wouldn't fight it honestly. Not worth the effort... and you'll lose.

~Eric

[jdepould]

Originally Posted by jpitz31

There is a company out there that owns the complete photography rights to any event where there are a large amount of public runners. You cannot publish any images from these events.

I'm skeptical on this one, since it would have to be private property to actually be enforceable.

Originally Posted by garys427

The reply states 'any' photo. So you and I go to a race there and I take a picture of you at sunset with the track in the background and they own the rights? I don't buy that. I understand what you're saying about the teams but the language that a moderator used seems unrealistic. And for the record, there is no statement to that effect on their website either.
Thanks for the replies.

Where you took the picture matters. If you're outside the gates, then you're not on their property, and haven't agreed to their terms.

[jpitz31]

Originally Posted by jdepould

I'm skeptical on this one, since it would have to be private property to actually be enforceable.

Not so, If you are talking about selling an image for commercial purposes you really have to be careful of copyright laws.

If you take an image in order to sell and there is any identifiable people or property you need a model or property release.

Did you know that in Paris you cannot take an image of the Eiffel tower at night without a property release? During the day is fine but not at night. (for commercial purposes)

Go to any micro stock forum and type search for copyright.

Do some digging on your own.

Thanks

Joe

[jdepould]

Originally Posted by jpitz31

Not so, If you are talking about selling an image for commercial purposes you really have to be careful of copyright laws.

If you take an image in order to sell and there is any identifiable people or property you need a model or property release.

Did you know that in Paris you cannot take an image of the Eiffel tower at night without a property release? During the day is fine but not at night. (for commercial purposes)

That's an entirely different issue.

Simply put, unless you agree to their terms (purchasing a ticket and entering the facility) then they can't claim your copyright on the image. Property releases are a completely different thing.

The French can make their own laws with regard to copyright (Bern Convention applies, obviously), but we're talking about the US here.

[inlina]

Jim Bryant put me on to asmp.org in another thread. Have a look at this page:

Business and Legal FAQ

Especially the question 'If I photograph a pro baseball-football-basketball game, can I sell the pictures for editorial use? For ad use?'.

From everything I read on that site, there is almost nothing stopping you from using a shot for editorial if they don't absolutely stop you from taking the shot... ie. not allowing you to take your camera in would be the only way. Selling it for use in an ad may be another story, but even then you can potentially use it.

If in doubt, you can seek legal advice. Maybe joining something like the ASMP affords you some help in that regard.

CG