legal question about shooting a professional event.

[RUSS-D]

I just got sent an e-mail asking me to remove any and all pictures I have for sale, of an event I shot, for my website. The event took place around a 9 mile Island on the Gulf Coast. I chased the racers around the Island, and shot pics of them. I have them for sale on my site, and the organizer of the event wants my to stop selling them. I am just wondering who is in the right? Me for shooting from all public locations, and never once(at the event site) being asked not to. I even talked with 2 of the photogs from the event, and told them my intentions of selling the photos. Or him, he has stated that he has a Copyright on the event, so I am not sure what rights that gives him in dictating who can shoot the event. I can uderstand him wanting the photogs he hired to have exclusive rights, but I thought that only applied to non public areas. Thank you all for any info you can give me on this subject. And if you need to ask me any questions, or need more info on the matter, please ask.

[Jim Bryant]

If anyone from the public was able to attend this event held on public land than you have a right to sell the photos. He might have a contract with the event authorizing him to be sole photographer selling photos, but as for copyright. Ask him to show you the paperwork saying he has a copyright on the event. I really don't a person can copyright an event, but I could be wrong.

[RUSS-D]

Originally Posted by Jim Bryant

If anyone from the public was able to attend this event held on public land than you have a right to sell the photos. He might have a contract with the event authorizing him to be sole photographer selling photos, but as for copyright. Ask him to show you the paperwork saying he has a copyright on the event. I really don't a person can copyright an event, but I could be wrong.

just to clarify, the email came from the event organizer, not a photographer. He claims his hired photogs have exclusive rights.
here is a copy of the email, minus any names for protection( I dont want to get in a heated battle with him, thats why I am researching my rights first). And there where at least 500 people attending the event, racers and spectators.
the e-mail.....
My name is ************ and I am the one who hosted the paddleboard race on *********. I don't know any other way to say this than to come out and ask you. Can you stop charging for pictures of the event? I don't mean to be rude but a lot of work and effort went into the event as well as the hiring of professional photographers who have exclusive rights to the event. I don't mind you giving them away but for you to make a profit off the event is not a good idea. The event itself is copyrighted and myself and my business associates have exclusive rights to the event. I hope this doesn't come off in a mean spirit and I hope that you understand. If you would like to be a part of the event in the future I would love to talk with you about it. If you have any questions please contact me.

[GadgetRick]

Sorry but, the way I understand copyright stuff, you can continue to sell the photos all you want. You took the shots from public spaces. You could have been sitting there with a point and shoot and shot them and sold them. Doesn't matter.

[OsmosisStudios]

Originally Posted by RUSS-D

The event itself is copyrighted and myself and my business associates have exclusive rights to the event.

This is BS. Straight-up. They cant copyright an event.

If you took your shots from the public areas, they don't have a leg to stand on. Unless they had a sign that specifically said "NO PHOTOGRAPHY" and charged admittance (and this policy was made clear before the event) then you're in the clear.

Just to be safe, I'd see if there isnt a good, cheap lawyer in the area that can help you a bit more officially.

[Swisstony10]

I'm looking at this in two ways (in my usual fashion), and I suspect the second one will bring me into the firing line for some stiff criticism from those who like to be stubborn, confrontational and righteous about things.

Let's assume, for the sake of argument (in both cases), that you are entirely in the right, and the event organiser hasn't got a leg to stand on in asking you to stop selling pictures of his event.

Option 1 - Dig your heels in, get a local lawyer to represent you, and refuse to stop selling your pictures of the event. This approach will gain you the right to continue selling the pictures of the event for a few dollars. You've told all your friends about the situation - think the event organiser isn't going to do the same? Think of all the bad-feeling you can nurture through this. Just because you're in the right, that doesn't mean that plenty of potential clients won't think that you're the bad guy.

Option 2 - There are two fairly telling comments in the email you posted - "..I don't mean to be rude.." and "..I hope this doesn't come off in a mean spirit..". There's also "If you would like to be a part of the event in the future I would love to talk with you about it. If you have any questions please contact me.". Why not open a dialogue with the guy, and try to reach some kind of compromise? That way you could do the same thing as this time with the next event, but have better access and get paid for it. Plus any other events that this person or his "business associates" organise.


Naturally, the course of action you choose to take is entirely up to you. I guess it depends whether you want a reputation as a guy with a self-righteous, indignant and obstructive attitude (I'm not saying that's who you are, but that's what all the people who only get to see one side of the story will think), who takes good pics and sells some of them, or the guy who's pleasant to deal with, easy to form working relationships with who takes good pics and sells some of them.

Everybody is a potential client - think about how you choose what suppliers you use when you're a client.

Russ.

[OsmosisStudios]

Originally Posted by Swisstony10

I guess it depends whether you want a reputation as a guy with a self-righteous, indignant and obstructive attitude

While I agree with the rest of your post, and think that it might be a good idea, this comment is downright offensive. Just because a photographer doesn't immediately roll over and take it doesn't mean they're self-righteous, indignant or obstructive: it mean they value their RIGHTS as a member of the public.

Discussing things with the event organizer is a good idea, but the fact of the matter is that the OP is being unlawfully asked to do something that infringes on their rights. That right there pretty much immediately gets a "go stuff it" attitude.

[Swisstony10]

I apologise if my comment was offensive. To be fair to me, it is followed immediately with the words "I'm not saying that's who you are, but that's what all the people who only get to see one side of the story will think" because in my opinion and experience, that is what people who only have half the story will think.

Before you jump at me, please read the entire comment, and understand the context and perspective in which it was written.

Russ.

[Jim Bryant]

Just because the guy gets a licenses to hold an event doesn't mean he own the copy right (photographers & artists own copyrights)........he's using wrong wording here. He might have hired professional photographers to cover the event and selling pictures, but the real issue is that you are also selling pictures and he is not getting a percentage of the sales. Normally, event photographers kick back anywhere from 25-35% of sales to the organization. Since it was help on public land, he doesn't have legal leg to stand on. Good luck.

[DivotMaker]

I would give you the same advice I have attempted to make myself over the years, even in times where I felt I was totally right.

This comes down to a business decision.

You have to ask yourself honestly:
A. Am I making enough money off of these photographs to pay court costs and still come out ahead.
B. What will this decision mean to my business in the long run.

I agree with some of the posters here, however, in reality if you are making a couple hundred bucks from selling the photographs, and it cost you a thousand to defend that right, what have you gained except not being invited to any events (you may not be aware of) in the future.

If you discuss this in a calm manner with the event organizer, you may retain some rights with these photos...and gain more business in the future.

While it is tempting to get into a (pardon me here) pi$$ing match here to prove who is right...you have to take into account the business aspect.

Just my 2c.

Believe me, sometimes I hate it more than you know, but reality is reality. And it has cost me a bunch of money, and taken my focus off my work....when I have tried to prove I was right, in the past.

(of course, if you are making thousands of the photos.. I say go find a good lawyer!)