Question about Selling the Rights to photos and being hired for job...

[evader]

Not too long ago I sold some images to a tourist association to be used in their annual Visitors Guide (printed and web).
The pictures were taken while I was visiting my sister (she lives about a 3 hour drive from me) and I didn’t take them with any intention of selling them to anyone…it was just me taking pictures. My sister ended up showing them to a friend of hers who happens to be involved with this tourism association and to make a long story short they ended up buying 16 of my images (first time I’ve ever sold any of my photos).
When I sold them I made sure to make it clear that they were only purchasing the images to be used in this years Visitors Guide and if they wanted to use them for anything else they would have to purchase the rights for the images (for a price to be determined at a later date).

Well, it turns out that “later date” is here...
I got an email today from the same lady saying that they used about half of the photos they purchased in the Visitors Guide (1 of them is actually a full two page spread) and she said…
“the photos are already gathering a lot of interest” and that they “may want to purchase the rights to some of the photos to share with their member municipalities”.

She then went on to say…
”We would like to hire you out to do some work for us with some specific focus. We would really like to capture the apple blossoms out right now and the amazing spring.”

So, 2 questions really…
1 - how do I go about pricing out the rights to the photos?
2 – What do I charge for being hired to shot specific work? I’ve never done anything like that before. And because the place they need me is 3 hours away how do I charge for that? I mean I don’t mind taking pictures if I’m going to be up visiting my sister but to make a trip specifically for the purpose of taking pictures for them? I think I need to be compensated for that.
The kicker is…we were up at my sisters this past weekend…too bad she didn’t email this last week.

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I’d like to hear back from some of you more experienced with this sort of thing before I call her back.

Thanks

[idcrewdawg]

For the rights, consider the scope that the images will cover. If it's in print, how many copies, is what you want to know. You can ask for a flat rate per copy, or you can ask a flat rate per image. Say they are going to print 1500 magazines in 20 countries on 3 different airlines or hotels. I would say ask for a flat rate per image. Figure out what the image is worth to you. 300, 500, 1000? That's for you to decide.

For a specific shoot, ask for an hourly rate. Consider your post processing time.

[Jim Bryant]

Don't forget travel time to and from the assignment and expenses for food and or hotel if need be.

[evader]

thanks for the replies...

regarding the job they want to hire me to do...My guess is they are going to tell me what type of photo's they want and I'm going to go and take the pictures...I don't imagine they will be with me when I go out. Do I tell them an hourly rate and give them a minimum number of hours? Do I then, after telling them the hourly rate give them my cost for traveling up there to take the photos?
There won't be any hotel expenses and very minimal food expenses since I would be spending the weekend at my sisters house.

[candleman]

the engineering company i work for often hires photographers to create marketing images.

they way they do it is: the photographer charges an hourly rate, which is charged during travel too. (and he has a full day rate)
once he's done his business he sends the marketing team a pile of pictures to choose from, and they buy the pictures individually at NZ$300 a pop.

if it were me.... i'd do it that way too.

[Jim Bryant]

Candleman -- That seems like a pretty good deal too!

[evader]

I like that idea too.

Thanks for the info

[candleman]

i dont know what the hourly rate is,
i'd guess it would be enough to cover accommodation, food etc etc plus some fat.
but it keeps it simple from the clients end anyway.

[superdewa]

Candleman, do they buy full rights to the photos as well or does the photographer retain rights?

[mirrorrim]

Hello evader,

I'm not a professional photographer, but I would highly recommend you go to your local book store and check out (if not buy) this book: "Best Business Practices for Photographers", by John Harrington. It's basically the book on running a photography business.

Here are some of his tips:

1. Don't let this turn into a work-for-hire job (basically, dont sign away all your rights to the images).
2. Get a signed estimate which spells out everything you will need to charge for.
3. Get a signed contract explaining exactly what rights they will have with your pictures (including a clause that if they do not pay in full, all licensing rights are revoked).

As for what to charge, here is what he suggests:

-Figure out what your overhead is. Calculate exactly how much it will cost to do the job (assistants, buying special equipment, food, lodging, travel, post-processing, etc) I know you said food/lodging would be minimal because you will be staying at your sister's house, but really they are hiring you for a special assignment that requires travel and they shouldn't take advantage of your sister's hospitality.

-Figure out the photographer's fee: this involves asking yourself some questions:
1. How much creativity is involved? 2. How much time is needed? 3. What is the uniqueness factor? 4. Risk factor? The answers to these should be gleaned from your conversation with the Visitor's Guide people. Here is what you should be thinking about:

1. Creativity: Don't sell yourself short. They came to you. Can you collaborate and come up with great ideas for portraying the location? If not, and they are just telling you what to shoot, can you offer ideas of a better way to portray the location?
2. Time: Figure out how long it will take to get the images needed. This includes set up and breakdown and post processing.
3. Uniqueness: are you the only guy who can get the shot? Do you have special equipment no one else has? Are you a creative genius? Can your pictures be replaced by anything found on a stock imaging site?
4. Risk: Are you wading in the water to take pictures? Standing on a boat? Getting a shot that only appears for a few seconds before it's gone? Leaning out a car window? Are you in a bad part of town?

All the above questions will affect the photographer's fee. I know that is a lot to think about, but it will help you in the end figure out the best and fairest price for you.

For more specific numbers of the cost of doing business, check out:
NPPA: Cost of Doing Business Calculator for a calculator.

Whatever you decide will be your photographer's fee, make sure it is more than your overhead. For a shoot like this he would do one flat fee, but if you want you could make it hourly with a min. number of hours (post processing would be an additional fee).

-Figure out the usage fee: this is the licensing of your images. Base it on publication size of the brochure, how many pics are used, the size of the picture in the brochure (quarter, half, full, etc) how long they can use them, etc. Remember: you own the images, they are only paying to use them for a specific amount of time.

I know I didnt give you any hard numbers, just a lot of thinking. But hopefully it will help you think about a good price instead of feeling used after taking 8+ hours and 3,000 images with hours of processing for them to pay you only $500.

here is another helpful link: http://www.nppa.org/professional_dev...s/pricing.html