Making a living???

[Kevin Anderson]

For the past year and three months I have been unemployed and have been collecting unemployment. I owe child support and am court madated to place 5 applications a week for work, which I do but have had little success.

Two years ago I began taking pictures on a regular basis, and bought a new XSI before I became unemployed. I started getting really serious about my hobby around this time last year. I post my work online (facebook) and have received great compliments and comments about the stuff I do. I have had three photos shown on the our local Fox station in the weather segment "Signs of the Seasons".

I received a rare call back on one of the jobs I had sent a resume to last Thursday. It was about a job which they were looking for a salesman/photographer. After talking to the gentalman about the job I stated that I have some sales experience, but I was more interested in the photography aspect. He said that that was good because he had plenty of sales people, and was looking for a photographer.

We met yesterday. He explained the job. Basically I would be a teamed with a sales person and sent to a church to photograph the church, pastor, any events, and the paritioners/famalies for a directory which they would be listed in, and then could buy additional items (packages). I would receive a flat $75 a day no matter what, and 7% comission on all sales. There are other benefits which cover travel, car, health, and would be considered an employee of the company and not a sub/and or contractor.

All the equipment would be provided and would be allowed to use for my benefit when not working.

I guess after all that my question is, can I make a decent living doing this? I'm conflicted, any thoughts, past experience, and general advice would be great appreciated...

Thanks,

Kevin

[Nicole]

I would say it's possible. It might be hard work, and you might have to try to find some other part time work to help with your income. If you have a good salesman that would probably help a lot in convincing people to buy the images. Of course, there are a few questions I'd have:
1. Is it a 5 day a week sort of job? Or is it that you get paid $75 per day on the days that you do work and you may only work a week out of the month sort of thing?
2. Is post-processing time included in that? Say if you shoot one day and get paid the $75 and then you spend the next day post-processing the photos, etc, do you get paid for that day as well?
3. Are you able to take good people shots and do so quickly and consistently? I had a look at your Flickr page, and they look good, but I didn't see any people shots, so I did have to ask.

Best of luck figuring out if it is what you want to do. I hope you have luck getting a job soon, my heart goes out to you being unemployed for so long.

[OsmosisStudios]

I think Nicoles concerns are valid. You likely could make a living from this, though I'd consider it more as a secondary form of employment (something that can be done in an afternoon/evening/between shifts at another job.

I do something similar: I work retail and am still in university. However, I do photography work on the side, between work shifts and classes.

[FrankLamont]

I assume they get inexclusive rights?

I can't say for sure - generally, the income in USA is lower than here in Australia, although prices are slightly higher here. $400-500 a week isn't much, here... as said, you'd probably have to get another job as well.

[Kevin Anderson]

Good questions!

The job is basically 6 days a week during the busy times, 5 when it's not with a really slow month in July, which would be ok with me! LOL

As far as the post processing, not sure, and a question I need to ask about.

People - I am a photographer/videographer/broadcast journalist in the Public Affairs Office for the Pennsylvania National Guard. I cover all the events (promotions/ceremonies/training) for the Division Headquarters and Main Command Post. If you have facebook, there is a link on my profile to the 28th ID - PAO, most of the picures there are mine...

Looking at the papers that I was given, they will pay the $75 a day during training (all other expenses are covered). I took it as if the sales are lower than the $75 then you get the $75 no matter what...

So a few things that I need to clear up and understand, never having worked in a comission based position like this before.

Thanks for the help!!!

[Kevin Anderson]

Originally Posted by FriedChicken

I assume they get inexclusive rights?

I can't say for sure - generally, the income in USA is lower than here in Australia, although prices are slightly higher here. $400-500 a week isn't much, here... as said, you'd probably have to get another job as well.

Thanks! I would love to live in Australia!!! I'm not opposed to hard work, especially if it's something I love doing.

I was looking at possibly using the equipment for my own work when not working for the company, which I could do to make extra cash....

[Nicole]

Sounds like it's definitely possible. Hope that you get the questions answered to your satisfaction. I mean, it's higher than minimum wage (based on 8 hour days), so that's a good start. Best wishes! I'll check out your facebook page later.

[GadgetRick]

I'll preface this by saying I've been in some form of sales/marketing for the past 17ish years.

Is it possible to make a living on this? I don't know. Not sure where Dillsburg, PA is but you have to look at what you need to earn first and foremost. You've got your cost of living---which you need to earn--plus child support. So, how much do you need to earn--keeping the child support number in mind--in order to survive? That's your first question to yourself.

Now, the $75 a day sounds like your, "salary," for lack of a better term. However, you need to clarify whether it's a salary or a draw. A draw is an amount a company pays you which you must earn back in commissions or you go underwater. As an example, at $75 a day times 5 days you're earning $375. If you don't earn (at least) $375 in commissions, you'll owe money the next week. Say you earn $300 in commissions, you'd then have to earn that $75 plus whatever you're paid the next week (another $375 for 5 days) and so on. Conversely, if you earn $500 in commissions, you'd be owed (only) $125 in commissions for the next week (although commissions are probably paid monthly). I don't know if this is what they're saying to you but be SURE of what they're saying to you.

The next thing you need to do is really assess whether this is something which can be (effectively) sold. I'm a bit skeptical on this based on your description. I've sold to many churches in my time, they are (typically) notoriously cheap even though they just ask the congregation for more money when they need it. Take a look at some of the newsletters they put out. Rarely do you see (good) full color with gorgeous (professional) photos, etc. I used to sell color printers so I've spoken to many churches in my day about this sort of thing.

You need to find out what the average sales person does in sales. This should give you an idea of what you might be able to earn.

How much is the average package they sell? What, exactly, are you paid your commissions on? Many times they exclude certain items or services. Clarify this up front.

How many packages does the average sales person sell per week? This, with the cost of the average package should give you an idea of what kind of commissions you can expect to make. Make sure you get the AVERAGE of this sort of thing. Don't ask what the TOP sales people make. That means nothing to you unless you become one of them. Honestly, most sales people are average or under--that's why it's an average.

You mentioned it's a seasonal-type thing. So, during the bad times, what is the average amount you can expect to make? Can you survive on that?

How long have people been there (assuming it's not a startup)? Specifically, the sales people. If there's a large turnover, that tells you something.

You also need to do some research on the company. How long have they been in business, etc. If this is a startup, it might be a good thing (or a bad thing) depending on how you look at it. However, if they are a startup, you have no way of gauging how well you might (or might not) do.

Most importantly, you need to get EVERYTHING in writing. Don't ASSUME anything.

Hope this helps and good luck!

[Kevin Anderson]

Originally Posted by Nicole

Sounds like it's definitely possible. Hope that you get the questions answered to your satisfaction. I mean, it's higher than minimum wage (based on 8 hour days), so that's a good start. Best wishes! I'll check out your facebook page later.

Thanks Nicole, your views and questions help...

[Kevin Anderson]

Originally Posted by GadgetRick

I'll preface this by saying I've been in some form of sales/marketing for the past 17ish years.

Is it possible to make a living on this? I don't know. Not sure where Dillsburg, PA is but you have to look at what you need to earn first and foremost. You've got your cost of living---which you need to earn--plus child support. So, how much do you need to earn--keeping the child support number in mind--in order to survive? That's your first question to yourself.

Now, the $75 a day sounds like your, "salary," for lack of a better term. However, you need to clarify whether it's a salary or a draw. A draw is an amount a company pays you which you must earn back in commissions or you go underwater. As an example, at $75 a day times 5 days you're earning $375. If you don't earn (at least) $375 in commissions, you'll owe money the next week. Say you earn $300 in commissions, you'd then have to earn that $75 plus whatever you're paid the next week (another $375 for 5 days) and so on. Conversely, if you earn $500 in commissions, you'd be owed (only) $125 in commissions for the next week (although commissions are probably paid monthly). I don't know if this is what they're saying to you but be SURE of what they're saying to you.

The next thing you need to do is really assess whether this is something which can be (effectively) sold. I'm a bit skeptical on this based on your description. I've sold to many churches in my time, they are (typically) notoriously cheap even though they just ask the congregation for more money when they need it. Take a look at some of the newsletters they put out. Rarely do you see (good) full color with gorgeous (professional) photos, etc. I used to sell color printers so I've spoken to many churches in my day about this sort of thing.

You need to find out what the average sales person does in sales. This should give you an idea of what you might be able to earn.

How much is the average package they sell? What, exactly, are you paid your commissions on? Many times they exclude certain items or services. Clarify this up front.

How many packages does the average sales person sell per week? This, with the cost of the average package should give you an idea of what kind of commissions you can expect to make. Make sure you get the AVERAGE of this sort of thing. Don't ask what the TOP sales people make. That means nothing to you unless you become one of them. Honestly, most sales people are average or under--that's why it's an average.

You mentioned it's a seasonal-type thing. So, during the bad times, what is the average amount you can expect to make? Can you survive on that?

How long have people been there (assuming it's not a startup)? Specifically, the sales people. If there's a large turnover, that tells you something.

You also need to do some research on the company. How long have they been in business, etc. If this is a startup, it might be a good thing (or a bad thing) depending on how you look at it. However, if they are a startup, you have no way of gauging how well you might (or might not) do.

Most importantly, you need to get EVERYTHING in writing. Don't ASSUME anything.

Hope this helps and good luck!

Thanks! That does help formulate new questions to ask the photography manager...