Getting screwed over by a friend - AGAIN.

[MWerner]

Ok, I'm the biggest idiot in the world. Why? I was stupid enough to not sign a contract with a friend for her engagement pictures. I SHOULD HAVE!

I do their engagement pictures, they choose their 25 images including 3 to be rushed for the wedding announcements to be sent out, I send them the three images in high-res (not only in classic color but in B&W and a vintage look too, so they actually got 9 files, because this is a friend of mine that I absolutely adore[d] ). This all started because of the way that I sent them the 9 files. Because they're high-res, I would have had to email them one or two at a time, wait for them to open and clear out their inbox, and then send them some more, and that's a pain in the butt. Instead, I uploaded them to a completely private set on Flickr, so that only I could view them, and I sent them an email through Flickr inviting them to view the photos so that they could download the high-res files. They noticed that they could also navigate through all my non-private sets and thought that theirs was also non-private. She called to ask me if I could make it a private, password-protected gallery ASAP, and I assured her that it was already private and that nobody perusing through my pictures could see her pictures.

She then brought up a point that her fiance is EX-TREME-LY concerned [read "neurotic"] about internet privacy issues, and asks that I not only DO NOT use their pictures on my blog, website, Facebook, or any other form of marketing or portfolio, but he asks that I give them the unedited files (as if they are physical negatives) and delete all trace of them from my computer. I'm sorry, but I just don't feel comfortable deleting files like that. I mean, I delete useless files all the time. But perfectly good, actually GREAT photos are not something that I can bring myself to delete. I just think it's bad practice. What if their house burns down and they have no other way to recover the photos? They'd be gone forever.

So anyway, she says that if I don't do this, then her fiance will be chasing me down, calling me, pulling out all the stops to make my life miserable until I am willing to do this. (Ah, I love it when my friends threaten me, don't you?) She says that he won't refer me if I don't do this. She started questioning my knowledge on their rights as the people being photographed to all the files, and I explained to her that the files are MY property, and as paying clients (I didn't give her any kind of friend discount - I've learned my lesson there) they had limited rights to the files that they pay for. Those rights would have been defined in a contract - DANG IT! So, I promised her that I would never, EVER, let their photos leak out onto the internet or print in any way, that the files will never see the light of day, but that I will not delete the files. I told her that I would write up a contract tonight saying that I will not use the photos in any way, yada yada yada, and if Mr. Neurotic has any other questions or concerns, I'd be happy to talk to him personally and I would reassure him, or that I'd be happy to meet with them in person so that I can look him in the eye and assure him.

I mean, it's not like these photos portrayed either of them in a negative light or anything. They weren't photos of him supporting some sort of Nazi revival group, or naked pictures of her. They are awesome photos of them being happy and in love. And they include no first or last names, social security numbers, addresses, birthdays, bloodtypes, phone numbers, or anything.

If I had known they were going to be so weird about this, I would have either referred them to someone else or charged them a whole lot more for such special treatment. I'm definitely still on the cheaper end of what I feel is my skill-level.

I could have prevented this from the beginning by actually getting on the ball and writing up a contract/model release for them in the beginning. Mine says explicitely that I have the rights to use their photos in any printed or digital portfolio or marketing, and they could have then brought this matter to me before we took any pictures. Instead, I said, "Oh, this is my friend. She's great. She'd never screw me over. I don't need to bother with a contract." Ha. Yeah, well, she might not screw me over, but her fiance might. I've learned two lessons here:
#1: ALWAYS SIGN A FRIGGING CONTRACT!!!!! Even if it's a friend. ESPECIALLY if it's a friend.
#2: I probably won't be doing photos for many friends anymore. This sucks. She was a good friend to me and it might be kinda weird between us now. Oh well.

Since I know somebody will probably ask, this is the package they paid for:

$150:
-

• Two hours of shooting time, up to three locations, two outfits.
• Professional retouching with artsy effects.
• Private, online proofing.
• Spotlight on my blog.
• Online gallery to share with family and friends.
• 25 low-resolution digital negatives, plus high-resolution digital negatives for any prints ordered.
• 3 high-res files for use in printing wedding announements.
• One 8x10 print
• One 11x14 print

A high-resolution CD for a portrait session is $300, but I think I might increase that after this.

So, my question to all of you is, has anyone come across a situation like this before where a client wanted you to delete all their photos, whether it was a friend or otherwise?

What are my rights as the paid, professional photographer, and what are their rights as paying clients?

[Jim Bryant]

You could have had a website that used a private password for them only to view the photos. Whoops, I noticed you did that, but it was a FlickR account, which some folks don't think as private. That's one of the reasons why I don't use FlickR............

[Jim Poor]

Lemme guess, he's a wannabe spook?

I forget what area you are in, but wow that's a lot of grief for the price. I charge more than that for PET photos, never mind engagements, etc.

Did you happen to at least arrange things via email? Even an oral agreement is binding, but if you have email then it is easier to prove who agreed to what.

I'd tell them that such restrictions placed on your use of the photos demands compensation at a much higher rate.

[OsmosisStudios]

Originally Posted by MWerner

$150:
-

• Two hours of shooting time, up to three locations, two outfits.
• Professional retouching with artsy effects.
• Private, online proofing.
• Spotlight on my blog.
• Online gallery to share with family and friends.
• 25 low-resolution digital negatives, plus high-resolution digital negatives for any prints ordered.
• 3 high-res files for use in printing wedding announements.
• One 8x10 print
• One 11x14 print

You're essentially giving yourself away here. Even if you had charged 300, you'd be selling yourself well shorts. Hell, the two prints alone would cost me a good $25 to have done at a proper lab. 1/6th of your price is far too high. That being said...

Originally Posted by MWerner

So, my question to all of you is, has anyone come across a situation like this before where a client wanted you to delete all their photos, whether it was a friend or otherwise?

What are my rights as the paid, professional photographer, and what are their rights as paying clients?

1) No. And even if they had, I'd have told them to get stuffed. I had a friend of mine ask me not to post (artistic nude) photos of her online, and I agreed, but to DELETE them? Hell no. Even the police need a court order to ask you to delete anything.

2) Since there's no contract, it's hard to say. If it ever went to court, it'd be your word against theirs. You really have 2 options here: either you go against their requests and do whatever it is you do normally (blog, online portfolio, etc) or you take the hit and simply go along with what they ask (minus the deleting of images.

Frankly, their request is ludicrous. If you can, reach some kind of mutual agreement where youre allowed to use the images for your portfolio but not on the blog, or you dont use the images at all (but dont delete them) and they pay through the nose for it.

[Jim Poor]

Oh, isn't "spotlight on my blog" something that they paid for? Then they must have agreed to it, right?

[CaptainNH]

Originally Posted by MWerner

Since I know somebody will probably ask, this is the package they paid for:

$150:
-

• Two hours of shooting time, up to three locations, two outfits.
• Professional retouching with artsy effects.
• Private, online proofing.
  
• Spotlight on my blog.
• Online gallery to share with family and friends.
• 25 low-resolution digital negatives, plus high-resolution digital negatives for any prints ordered.
• 3 high-res files for use in printing wedding announements.
• One 8x10 print
• One 11x14 print

Since you're able to cite this list of services, you've obviously discussed this with your friends (verbal contract) or, hopefully, exchanged emails (written contract).

Either way, if they have agreed to appearing on your blog and in an online gallery, and they are now reneging on this aspect of the deal, then I'd suggest that the whole deal is open for renegotiation - ie. if you're not able to gain any marketing out of the shots, then I'd up the price or walk away from the whole thing.

At the end of the day, it all depends on how much you value their friendship - is it worth losing their friendship for the sake of a few photos?

What they are asking for may be contrary to what you have agreed, but at the end of the day, it isn't going to cost you any money. In such circumstances, it's often worth agreeing with the client and walking away, rather than suffer the likely loss of reputation (warranted or not, bad comments spread quicker than good ones !).

[i speak in math]

Unless the client has proof that they have purchased the rights to a photo, there isn't anything they can do. They hired you for your services. They did not pay for any image copyrights.

Wow, what a bunch of paranoid asses.

I would have told them to get bent and the photos are MY property, contract or not.

Then to have them threaten you?

They get nothing except their money back and a "goodbye"

Glad my friends aren't like that.

[shphoto32]

Wow. That's pretty wild. I usually won't let my clients take my rights to my photos away unless they buy my complete negative package. I understand the internet and other publishing privacy issues, but I use images on my blog to promote my business, and if they want to take that away from me they need to pay for that. Always Always Always sign a contract.

[Digidave]

So, I promised her that I would never, EVER, let their photos leak out onto the internet or print in any way, that the files will never see the light of day, but that I will not delete the files

If you will not be using them on the internet or printing them, what is the purpose of saving them?
In case their house burns down, you will have a copy? If they want to be that paranoid about it then why do you insist on keeping a copy that you have absolutely no use for? Possibly at the cost of a friendship. If nothing else, burn them to a CD & delete from your computer. Not that I would allow anyone to rummage through my computer but how is anyone going to know any different.

Maybe I'm missing something here.