Restricted interchangeable use of lenses between Full Format and Crop Sensor Bodies

[asheeshkchopra]

I own a Canon 500D and have been considering to upgrade to a Full Frame camera for a while. Since i only have basic lenses with me, i did not want to restrict my choice to Canon and started exploring Nikon models as well. While making comparison on various parameters (primarily between the Canon 5D Mk2 and Nikon D700), i discovered a very disturbing fact that the Canon EFS lenses can not be used on the Full Frame bodies like 5D Mk2. I checked Nikon and was pleasantly surprised that Nikon gives total flexibility to use any of there DX of FX lenses with any of Nikon Full Frame or Crop Sensor bodies.

What i found to be most surprising is that i have not seen a single reference to this fact in any of so many sites/ blogs that compare the two brands / models. Maybe i am not that well read

Also, I found that 5D Mk2 has a serious constraint in not providing a fill-in flash, which is most useful for people like me who would not want to put on a speed light every time you want to click your kid in indoors. Nikon D700 does provide that and i find no good reason why Canon should not provide this option to its users. (Pls dont get me wrong. i believe that 5D Mk is a very good camera)

So can we conclude Nikon gives much more freedom to the users that Canon?
Canon , I am disappointed!

[nickbedford]

Originally Posted by asheeshkchopra

Also, I found that 5D Mk2 has a serious constraint in not providing a fill-in flash, which is most useful for people like me who would not want to put on a speed light every time you want to click your kid in indoors. Nikon D700 does provide that and i find no good reason why Canon should not provide this option to its users. (Pls dont get me wrong. i believe that 5D Mk is a very good camera)!

The reason it likely doesn't is A) if you're using a Canon 5DMKII then you're not going to want to use a puny little pop-up flash and B) with the kind of lenses you should be using with a 5DMKII, the pop up flash usually causes a great big shadow at the bottom of your image.

I use a 50D and my pop-up flash is not high enough for my Canon EF-S 17-55mm F/2.8 lens. Hence why I bought a Speedlite.

[TerryL]

Originally Posted by asheeshkchopra

I own a Canon 500D and have been considering to upgrade to a Full Frame camera for a while. Since i only have basic lenses with me, i did not want to restrict my choice to Canon and started exploring Nikon models as well. While making comparison on various parameters (primarily between the Canon 5D Mk2 and Nikon D700), i discovered a very disturbing fact that the Canon EFS lenses can not be used on the Full Frame bodies like 5D Mk2. I checked Nikon and was pleasantly surprised that Nikon gives total flexibility to use any of there DX of FX lenses with any of Nikon Full Frame or Crop Sensor bodies.

What i found to be most surprising is that i have not seen a single reference to this fact in any of so many sites/ blogs that compare the two brands / models. Maybe i am not that well read

Also, I found that 5D Mk2 has a serious constraint in not providing a fill-in flash, which is most useful for people like me who would not want to put on a speed light every time you want to click your kid in indoors. Nikon D700 does provide that and i find no good reason why Canon should not provide this option to its users. (Pls dont get me wrong. i believe that 5D Mk is a very good camera)

So can we conclude Nikon gives much more freedom to the users that Canon?
Canon , I am disappointed!

Remember, the 5D mark II will take pictures inside with a flash rarely needed , it will shoot a very high ISO with little or no noise, thats what makes it the wedding photographers choice, I won't shoot with a flash on top of a camera anyway, I think the flash needs to be off camera and to the side when you do need it, just my .02 worth

[inkista]

Yup, the 5Ds have no pop-up flash, because they were designed more as a spe******t tool for studio or landscape shooting. In the first case, you're more likely to be using off-camera/studio lights, and in the latter, you're likely not to be using any flash. The D700 is meant to be more of a general-purpose camera. If you want a full frame for sports and casual snapshots as well as landscapes/portraits, then a D700 might fit your needs better. I have a 5D mark II, and I don't really miss the pop-up flash much. I'd prefer to use a speedlight and bounce than use a popup for snapshots inside. The only times I miss it are if I want to use a "dumb" optical slave, and that's pretty rare, since I have radio triggers and an ST-E2.

One more point. The D700 is a 12MP camera. That's lower resolution than your 500D. The D700 also has no video capability. The 5D Mark II is a 21 MP camera, and it has HD video. The D700 was specced more to compete with the 5D "classic"/Mark I, the 5D Mark II is newer by a generation so they're distinctly different tools. We'll probably see a model leapfrog this spring, though, as a D700 successor is likely to be announced, and one assumes it's going to include that cool new Sony sensor tech that's making the Pentax K-5 and Nikon D7000 so interesting.

Additionally, the DX/FX thing may not be exactly what you're envisioning. While DX lenses can be mounted and used on FX bodies, the image will be cropped down to the size of a DX sensor. In other words, you'll only be using 66% of the FX sensor area. A DX lens still projects a crop-sensor-sized image circle, which is not big enough to cover the FX sensor. Canon just assumes that if you're using a big sensor, you'd prefer to use the whole thing all the time. And, chances are, that if you're using a $2500 camera with 21MP resolution, that you're likely to want lenses that resolve well enough to use as much of that resolution as possible, which generally means Ls. None of the L lenses are EF-S.

Aside from that, 3rd party "EF-S" lenses, like the Tamron DX, Sigma DC, or Tokina Di II lenses for Canon EOS will all mount on a full frame and can be used. They'll still vignette, though, like EF-S and DX lenses, so cropping is probably the order of the day.

[Raoul Isidro]

"Restricted interchangeable use of lenses between Full Format and Crop Sensor Bodies "
Restricted is not the word.
Market Segmentation is more like it.
These camera brands could easily lump all features in a monster camera, but only a small segment of the money wallet population could afford it. So they divided up the spoils into what they think the masses are arranged as in a strata. That could mean starting at a paupers budget of $500 to an urban yuppy who could throw out $5,000 for an ogre monster DSLR that he/she could not really control... "Down. boy!"

[RichardTaylor]

Quote:
"
So can we conclude Nikon gives much more freedom to the users that Canon? "
End Quote.

No.

Both systems may have perceived weaknesses.

(1) Cannon EF-S lenses cannot be used on full frame bodies.
(2) Low end Nikon systems may have autofocus crippled when using some lenses
(3) As inkista pointed out you will not be able to record a complete full frame filling image with DX lenses.

Yes it can be a problem if you switch from a Canon crop camera to a Canon full frame camera however if you have a full frame camera as well as a crop camera it is not a problem. I shoot with both a full frome camera and a crop body camera.

As far as the lack of a pop up flash gun goes on a 5D, yes very rerely I may miss it, however it is not a deal breaker.
I use an external flash almost always with boy my full frame camera a crop cameras.

[theosus]

I read early on that canon ef-s lenses could not be used on full-frame bodies because the back of the lens sticks farther into the body. The mirror in front of the shutter still has room to flip up with the ef-s lens, because its shorter. BUT - the mirror on the full-frame body will hit the extended portion of an EF-s lens, and won't be able to flip up. Thus the reason you can use ef-s lenses on the full frame body.

BUT - is there any problem buying and using EF lenses with your crop-sensor camera, and then just switching out bodies later? Im assuming since the image would be larger than the sensor, some of the outside edges would be cut off. I also assume because the mirror is designed to show you what the sensor would see, that what you see through the viewfinder would still be the picture you take...

[RichardTaylor]

Depending on the the lens you want to use, no problem at all.
What you see is what you get.

The only real downside for a crop body is that there are no fast (<=F2) 35mm equivalent wide angle (<=28mm) lenses available for a crop body.

[inkista]

Originally Posted by theosus

I read early on that canon ef-s lenses could not be used on full-frame bodies because the back of the lens sticks farther into the body. The mirror in front of the shutter still has room to flip up with the ef-s lens, because its shorter. BUT - the mirror on the full-frame body will hit the extended portion of an EF-s lens, and won't be able to flip up. Thus the reason you can use ef-s lenses on the full frame body.

Yes, there's an idiot-bumper on the back of EF-S lenses that keeps them from being mounted on full-frames. Some enterprising folks with dremel tools have been able to remove the idiot bumper from some lenses and use them on the APS-H cameras (the 1D series) or full frames, but this isn't for the faint of heart or expensive lenses, or for lenses where the rear element actually is set farther back.

BTW, the mirror clearance on the 5D series is NOT the same as the mirror clearance on the 1Ds series. The pro series have a squidge more room for some unknown reason.

BUT - is there any problem buying and using EF lenses with your crop-sensor camera, and then just switching out bodies later? Im assuming since the image would be larger than the sensor, some of the outside edges would be cut off.

Yup. But this is actually an advantage with EF lenses. Most lenses have their weakest performance in the corners, where the light had to be bent the most by the lens. As a result, some EF lenses actually look better on a crop body than on a full frame (the EF 50mm f/1.8 II being one great example). You're using the lens at more of a "sweet spot" with a crop body. This is why a lot of folks end up upgrading lenses when they get to full frame.

I also assume because the mirror is designed to show you what the sensor would see, that what you see through the viewfinder would still be the picture you take...

Exactly right. You make good assumptions!