Novice Needs A New Camera

[tengukyoku]

I'm a total photography novice and I want to know what the best camera I can get with a budget of 300 Canadian dollars is.

The camera will be primarily used for:

1) Taking reference photos. (I am a cartoonist and many of my stories will be set in real cities. I therefore need a camera that can get a lot in a shot. For example, if I'm in downtown Toronto and want to photograph a couple skyscrapers, I want to be able to get them in their entirety in the shot).

2) Taking photos of natural scenery. (I am also what's called a "bikepacker", which is like a backpacker, except you travel by bicycle. I am currently riding to Sudbury and then Sault Ste. Marie, and want to be able to get good shots of all the beautiful scenery and wildlife I will encounter along the way).

Other than that, my only other use is to photograph neat things I happen across.

I want a camera with:

- Good zoom and the ability to get a lot in every shot. The more I can get in a shot, and the more detailed I can get it, the better.

- Adequate shutter speed for photographing wildlife and motor/pedestrian traffic, so my reference photos don't have a lot of blurry objects in them.

- The ability to take good pictures at night.

- Macro, black and white, and sepia modes.

Of lesser importance is:

- The option to use a rechargeable battery or AAs.

- Compactability.

I'm considering this one: Canon PowerShot 12.1MP Digital Camera (SX130IS) - Black - Future Shop

[inkista]

Originally Posted by tengukyoku

I'm a total photography novice and I want to know what the best camera I can get with a budget of 300 Canadian dollars is.

I think your choice of the S130IS is a good one, but ....

I want a camera with:

- Good zoom and the ability to get a lot in every shot. The more I can get in a shot, and the more detailed I can get it, the better.

The S130IS has a relatively wide lens (28mm equiv.) but it's not super-wide. The only P&S cameras that go wider (24mm equivalent) are more expensive and generally don't have as much reach, so I think for the budget you've stated, you're doing pretty good (however, you might also want to consider the Fujifilm FinePix F300EXR, as it does the 24mm thing). But you may not be able to capture the entire view you want in a single shot. Learn about panostitching. Canon Powershots come with a piece of software called Photostitch where you can merge multiple shots into a single image. You could also use freeware packages like Autostitch or Hugin.

- Adequate shutter speed for photographing wildlife and motor/pedestrian traffic, so my reference photos don't have a lot of blurry objects in them.

You'll get the shutter speed (by which we mean how long the shutter stays open during the exposure, and which is what freezes the action), but most P&S cameras have shutter lag (by which we mean a pause between hitting the shutter button and the camera taking a picture). You're likely to be disappointed with any P&S camera for fast-action shooting.

- The ability to take good pictures at night.

This isn't about the camera as much as it is about using a tripod.

- Macro, black and white, and sepia modes.

B&W, and sepia are things you can do in post-process. And most P&S cameras have great macro capabilities, because of their tiny lenses.

For most of us who are more serious about photography, what we're looking for on P&S cameras comes down to two things: shooting modes other than full auto which gives us the ability to directly set either the aperture or the shutter speed or both, and the ability to shoot RAW.

RAW is the raw data coming off the sensor, instead of a processed JPEG. You have full digital information to mess with, so things like setting white balance or adjusting for exposure have a lot more latitude in post-processing than with JPEGs. If this interests you at all and you do eventually buy a Canon Powershot, you may eventually want to look into the CHDK and see if they've developed a version for your camera.

[tengukyoku]

Originally Posted by inkista

I think your choice of the S130IS is a good one, but ....


The S130IS has a relatively wide lens (28mm equiv.) but it's not super-wide. The only P&S cameras that go wider (24mm equivalent) are more expensive and generally don't have as much reach, so I think for the budget you've stated, you're doing pretty good (however, you might also want to consider the Fujifilm FinePix F300EXR, as it does the 24mm thing). But you may not be able to capture the entire view you want in a single shot. Learn about panostitching. Canon Powershots come with a piece of software called Photostitch where you can merge multiple shots into a single image. You could also use freeware packages like Autostitch or Hugin.

The F300EXR is stocked by only one of the three places I know of to buy cameras here, and it's slightly outside my budget. It's only about $30 more than my stated budget, but even such a small amount can be a lot when you're travelling.

I'd appreciate your thoughts on these other cameras I found:

Fuji Finepix S1800

Nikon Coolpix L110

Pentax Optio X90 I like the extended zooms of these cameras, especially the 26x on the Optio.

Pentax Optio W90 I really like how sleek and compact this one looks. And the fact that it's "adventure proof" REALLY appeals to me, as I am travelling to Northern Ontario (which is going to get real cold real soon) and eventually across the whole country by bicycle. However, it's zoom is much more limited than the others; only 5x.

Also, how can I tell how wide a camera's lens is? Of the links I've given, the page for the Nikon is the only one where it clearly says; 28mm.

And since you mentioned the 24mm lens of the F300EXR, does a smaller lens equal wider shots?

Originally Posted by inkista

You'll get the shutter speed (by which we mean how long the shutter stays open during the exposure, and which is what freezes the action), but most P&S cameras have shutter lag (by which we mean a pause between hitting the shutter button and the camera taking a picture). You're likely to be disappointed with any P&S camera for fast-action shooting.

I can live with that. My main concern is getting everything I can in a single shot. Having to draw backgrounds from multiple reference photos is a real pain in the ass. I've heard of the photostitching you described, but I'm concerned about how well it works. (i.e. not moving the camera far enough between shots messing up the photos when they're stitched). And I'd plain rather just not have to go through the extra hassle if I don't have to.

Originally Posted by inkista

This isn't about the camera as much as it is about using a tripod.

I thought tripods were for preventing camera shake?

Originally Posted by inkista

For most of us who are more serious about photography, what we're looking for on P&S cameras comes down to two things: shooting modes other than full auto which gives us the ability to directly set either the aperture or the shutter speed or both, and the ability to shoot RAW.

RAW is the raw data coming off the sensor, instead of a processed JPEG. You have full digital information to mess with, so things like setting white balance or adjusting for exposure have a lot more latitude in post-processing than with JPEGs. If this interests you at all and you do eventually buy a Canon Powershot, you may eventually want to look into the CHDK and see if they've developed a version for your camera.

My interest in photography is mostly reference photos for my cartooning and preserving memories/capturing interesting sights/moments. I'm not so interested in post-processing.

[inkista]

Originally Posted by tengukyoku

I'd appreciate your thoughts on these other cameras I found:

Sorry, I don't know anything about them. The site I'd go to for basic specs and side-by-side comparisons of cameras would be dpreview.

And since you mentioned the 24mm lens of the F300EXR, does a smaller lens equal wider shots?

Yes.

dpreview will give you the focal length coverage of each camera (this is why the x-zoom notation is semi-useless--all it tells you is the ratio between the longest and shortest focal lengths, not what they actually are. A 6-18mm lens is a 3x, but so is a 100-300mm, and those will give you vastly different coverage). When you say you want to be able to cover everything in a single shot, the spec you're looking for is the focal length of the lens. And not the actual focal length, but the 35mm equivalency, because these cameras have varying sensor sizes, so a 6mm lens can equate to different coverage with different sensors. As I mentioned before, you're not going to be doing too much better than 28mm on most of them. A lot of them even start at 35mm equivalency.

The Optix you mention is 28mm (equiv) at the wide end.

I can live with that. My main concern is getting everything I can in a single shot.

Just saying. 28mm equiv. is only this wide:


Canon S90, @6mm (28mm equiv.)

I've heard of the photostitching you described, but I'm concerned about how well it works. (i.e. not moving the camera far enough between shots messing up the photos when they're stitched). And I'd plain rather just not have to go through the extra hassle if I don't have to.

Understandable. But you aren't going to be able to put a wider lens on a P&S camera. You could try adding a conversion lens if the camera has the ability to use them, but then your images won't be as sharp.

Photostitching isn't that hard, once you get the hang of it--but it will eat up processing time. Still, it's one way to get a very wide angle of coverage if you need one and you lens only goes so wide. Here's a pano I stitched together from 7 handheld shots with my very old 3 megapixel Canon S30 (35mm equiv. at the wide end).



The technique does work. You just have to shoot with enough overlap that you know you've covered the entire scene. As you can see, I didn't have quite enough coverage, and there's a ghost/clone in the foreground where someone moved. These are the two main drawbacks. And CS5's content-aware fill can certainly take care of those missing bits of sky.

Here's a more extreme case:


Canon XT/350D. EF-S 60mm f/2.8 USM Macro (96mm equiv.)
27 shots: 3 rows of 9 frames. Handheld. Stitched in Kekus Calico.

Re: night shooting.

I thought tripods were for preventing camera shake?

Yes. When you don't have enough light, a longer shutter speed is useful for gathering more light. Night photography is typically longer exposure photography. At which point, you'll need a tripod or other support to hold the camera steady to avoid camera shake blur. Most P&S cameras are limited on the length of shutter speed. The S-series Canons can typically do 15 or 30 seconds, which should be enough for most night shooting.


Canon S30, @7.1mm (35mm equiv.) iso 100. f/2.8. 1/5s. supported on a railing, timer.

[tengukyoku]

So in addition to focal length, are there any other specs I should look for?

In regards to photostitching, I'll have to look into that more. I don't think I fully understand it.

(I thought that you could only do it with certain cameras and that the camera did the stitching itself. I also thought that shots had to be taken in rapid succession for it to work, hence my concern about either having details repeated (an extreme example would be having four or six rails in your bridge photo from not moving the camera far enough between shots) or gaps (like the ones that are in your photo) from moving it too far).

But since you mentioned stitching programs, would I be correct in assuming that people can now stitch seperate pictures together manually?

I'm going to go to Henry's (a local camera store) in the next day or two, is there anything else I need to know before talking to a salesperson?

Thanks for the explanations you've provided, you've enlightened me on a few things.

And your night shot is awesome. It's pictures like that that make me more interested in photography for it's own sake as opposed to a means to an end. (Likewise, it's the prospect of spending thousands of dollars on a camera that keeps it from becoming another obsession).

[inkista]

Originally Posted by tengukyoku

So in addition to focal length, are there any other specs I should look for?

For me, lens, resolution, manual mode, and RAW capability (as I mentioned above) are my main ones. You probably don't care about RAW, and full manual may be overkill for you, but I would look to see if a camera has at least got some way for you to mess with iso, aperture, and shutter speed.

That night shot I took was underexposed from what the camera's auto-exposure wanted me to do. Being able to adjust when the metering is wrong is a big part of taking control of your photos. So at least having some way to perform "exposure compensation" is something you want to look for.

In regards to photostitching, I'll have to look into that more. I don't think I fully understand it.

It's not that hard. When you shoot, you just have to overlap the pieces by about a third of the frame, so that the software can find features that match to align the images for the final stitch. Most stitching software these days can automatically align images, perform some distortion correction/warping to get the photos to "match" (when you rotate/move the camera, you can cause perspective differences), and then blends over the seams. Photoshop can do this. So can the freeware packages Hugin and Autostitch.

(I thought that you could only do it with certain cameras and that the camera did the stitching itself.

Nope. This is a software post-processing thing. Not a camera thing. As I showed in my post, this can be done with any digital camera--even a three megapixel 9 year old one.

I also thought that shots had to be taken in rapid succession for it to work, hence my concern about either having details repeated (an extreme example would be having four or six rails in your bridge photo from not moving the camera far enough between shots) or gaps (like the ones that are in your photo) from moving it too far).

The main issues are, obviously, the gaps from moving the camera too far. Having them too close is no big deal--you just discard the ones that are already covered by other images. What is more of a concern is parallax. Which is when the perspective changes causes objects to "move" in relation to the camera, and so the locations won't match in the images when you need to stitch them. This typically happens when objects are close to the camera. When they're far away, as with a landscape shot, it's typically negligible as an effect.

You can get around the parallax issue by carefully rotating the lens around its no-parallax point (some folks will say "nodal point" or "entrance pupil" point, but those are misleading terms). But this may require a special tripod head, and is really only necessary if you're shooting indoors and particularly in tight spaces.

The other concern are things that move in the frame between shots, which is probably why you got the impression they needed to be taken in rapid succession. This however, is not always true. You can mask objects, and as long as there's enough overlap to cover the background, you can use masks and layers to eliminate most ghosts/clones of moving people and objects. But that's a lot of post-processing time. Since you say you're mostly taking pics for reference, I figured this might not be such a big deal for you, assuming you're mostly referencing locations, and not individual people.

I'm going to go to Henry's (a local camera store) in the next day or two, is there anything else I need to know before talking to a salesperson?

Your budget and what you want to use the camera for. Stick to it. They'll always try to upsell you.

And your night shot is awesome. It's pictures like that that make me more interested in photography for it's own sake as opposed to a means to an end. (Likewise, it's the prospect of spending thousands of dollars on a camera that keeps it from becoming another obsession).

Well, as I mentioned, that particular shot wasn't about the camera: the S30 was a 2001 three megapixel P&S from Canon. It was only unusual in letting me shoot RAW (which I didn't use for that shot), and having full Manual control (which I probably also didn't use for that shot. Exposure compensation covered that one). What was important was that I knew enough to put it on a hand rail and use the timer to eliminate camera shake.

This shot was done with the same camera and similar technique:


Canon S30 @12.3mm, iso 80, f/3.5, 2/5s.

And the important extra pieces of equipment were this $10 plastic tripod and a fortuitously placed bench. It doesn't cost an arm and a leg to do these things. But it does take a little extra knowledge, an eye for the opportunity, and decent control over your camera.

[Happy_Mummy]

Hoping I'm not too late! Just thought that I would add that camera zoom for wildlife is not always the greatest thing. My Mum loves her 20x zoom camera, but I think it does a horrible job of taking the zoomed photos - mostly because she doesn't use a tripod, so she gets mild camera shake in every zoomed photo. Also ignore any digital zoom selling features - turn it all off in the camera when you get it. You are better off to take the photo as zoomed in as possible, then crop it later if you want it closer. It will look grainy, and you can only zoom so far, but it will be better than the digital zoom.

Also had to add that Sault Ste Marie and Sudbury are not Northern Ontario :P Good for you for biking it though and I hope you have a great time! Are you going along the highway, or on paths? I have made the drive from Vancouver to Calgary and Calgary to Thunder Bay. The most boring part I found to be from the Manitoba border to Thunder Bay because it was either cliffs of trees on either side of the highway. At least you will be out of bug season!!! Those black flies are brutal!!! I will say there were a few nice views along the highway where you could see lakes and ponds, those were very pretty at sunset!

[tengukyoku]

Originally Posted by Happy_Mummy

Also had to add that Sault Ste Marie and Sudbury are not Northern Ontario :P Good for you for biking it though and I hope you have a great time! Are you going along the highway, or on paths? I have made the drive from Vancouver to Calgary and Calgary to Thunder Bay. The most boring part I found to be from the Manitoba border to Thunder Bay because it was either cliffs of trees on either side of the highway. At least you will be out of bug season!!! Those black flies are brutal!!! I will say there were a few nice views along the highway where you could see lakes and ponds, those were very pretty at sunset!

They are for someone from Toronto.

I took Highway 11 from Toronto to Barrie where I have stayed for nearly two months saving money, and I'm leaving Friday. I'm either going to take highways or paths through Wasaga Beach, Owen Sound, etc. When I reach Tobermory, I'll take the ferry to Manitoulin Island and then the bridge on the other end to Espanola, and from there go to Sudbury. Then I'll backtrack and go to the Soo.