First DSLR — Recommendations?

[Crossfire905]

Originally Posted by mattdm

Asking Bower is unlikely to get any helpful response — they've never responded to any of my questions about anything.

That figures. Oh, well... That's why I decided to go ahead and add a Safe-Sync to my shopping list. I might want to pick up a more sophisticated speedlight at some point, but for now, I'll just use what I have. I think it's probably good enough for a starter.

If I really need to go way off-camera with it, I can always get a PC sync cable, plug one end into the Safe-Sync on the K-x, and plug the other end into my optical trigger [or leave off the Safe-Sync and trigger the DA-2000 optically if I decide I want multiple flash sources]. Once the K-x kit gets here, I'll have three "mini/travel/pocket" tripods [I have two already], so at least one can be used as a flash stand.

Which reminds me, I know I'm also going to want a flash diffuser of some sort.

[BCampbell]

Hey guy,

Looks like you're gooing to be pretty happy with you K-x, and using older manual lenses is pretty fun.

But at this point I would say slow down. You don't even have the camera in your hands and you're buying more lenses and flash accessories for it? Take some time and get used to the basic controls with the kit lens first.

As far as older lenses go, there is some great glass to be had but also some dogs. In general, you really do get what you pay for; while good older lenses may not command quite the same price premium as new glass, the good stuff isn't cheap either. Especially zooms in the <$50 category. And mirror lenses. All that stuff is fun of course, but here's the thing, and maybe this will illustrate the point. How much do you know about stop-down metering and especially how it relates to aperture? What's the max aperture on that mirror telephoto, f/8 probably? Probably fixed? Now add a 2x teleconverter; you're at f/16 and 1000mm (1500mm effective). Even on a tripod, you'll need fairly fast shutter speeds, do you knwo what kind of ISO you'll end up using to achieve that at f/16 (hint: look up the Sunny 16 rule and do the math). Moreover, do you know what the viewfinder is going to look like at f/16 with stop-down metering?

Well, you'll learn all of this stuff, but I think before you learn those details you'll want a solid grounding in how the camera works with the kit lens. Maybe I'm underestimating you and you've already got this all under control. But it sounds like you need to chill out a bit and get used to your new hardware before buying more new hardware.

If you want some older lenses, I'd highly suggest starting with the Pentax 50mm f/1.7 and 28mm f/2.8 primes. The first gives you fairly good light gathering and decent quality glass, to compare other older lenses to. The second gives you a normal-range field of view on the crop sensor and is a great light, walkaround, "street" lens.

Anyway, good luck, keep us updated.

[Crossfire905]

Originally Posted by BCampbell

But at this point I would say slow down. You don't even have the camera in your hands and you're buying more lenses and flash accessories for it? Take some time and get used to the basic controls with the kit lens first.

Well, for one thing, it's rare indeed that I can even afford to build up a kit like this — otherwise, I would have upgraded long before now — and I'm taking advantage of it while I still have the money. I don't think I'll need any more lenses for a very long time, and I don't think I'm planning to buy any more, with the possible exception of perhaps something like a fast 50mm prime. I'll have the 18-55mm kit lens, the Sigma 70-210mm zoom, and the 500mm mirror lens, and that should cover just about everything I might want to do, from macro all the way up to what seems to be some pretty long telephoto. The 18-55 will, of course, be my main lens. The other two are just for fun, especially the mirror lens.

As for the other stuff... Things I know I'm going to want or need. Polarizer, some ND filters [yes, I know they're going to alter the exposure values, and allow for wider apertures in bright light], the Safe-Sync so I can use this old flash instead of having to buy a new one or rely solely on the K-x's pop-up flash [and so I can move the flash off-camera for those times when I don't necessarily want to light something head-on], a flash diffuser for those times when I want to spread the light around a bit and cut some shadows... All basic necessities for my general-purpose bag, IMHO.

I know I have a lot to learn, and I don't expect to be winning awards on day one with the camera. These aren't just giddy impulse purchases — they're instructional tools. I've been wanting to learn SLR photography for a very long time.

All that stuff is fun of course, but here's the thing, and maybe this will illustrate the point. How much do you know about stop-down metering and especially how it relates to aperture?

Not much, but I'll learn, and I expect it to be a lot of experimentation and trial-and-error. A larger aperture is going to let in more light, and I may need a faster shutter speed and/or slower ISO speed to compensate [prevent over-exposure], while a smaller aperture lets in less light, and I may need slower shutters and/or faster ISO [which can be as high as 12,800 on the K-x, though of course not without some noise]. A larger aperture can be used for a more shallow DOF, to separate foregrounds from backgrounds, while a smaller aperture can give more depth, and less foreground/background separation, but as the aperture changes, other settings are affected. Widen the aperture, increase the shutter speed and/or decrease the ISO if the lighting conditions require it [daylight, for instance].

As I understand it, anyway...

What's the max aperture on that mirror telephoto, f/8 probably? Probably fixed? Now add a 2x teleconverter; you're at f/16 and 1000mm (1500mm effective). Even on a tripod, you'll need fairly fast shutter speeds, do you knwo what kind of ISO you'll end up using to achieve that at f/16 (hint: look up the Sunny 16 rule and do the math).

Yeah, I believe it's f/8 fixed. According to the Sunny 16 entry on Wikipedia, f/16 would need about 1/125 sec. shutter at ISO 100, and about 1/400 to 1/500 at ISO 400, assuming bright sunlight. I assume this means that f/8, being wider than f/16, would need about 1/250 shutter at ISO 100 in sunlight?

Add a very long focal length, and you need a tripod and a fast shutter just to cut the effects of motion blur. Until I gain some experience, I wouldn't think of shooting anything handheld with that mirror lens.

The K-x does histograms. I know I'll be making use of those, especially early on. Learning how to set exposures was the reason why I insisted on having a camera with histograms, Live View, and histograms during Live View, and that was one of the main reasons why I chose the K-x over the others. A higher-end camera might be designed to assume that I always know exactly what I'm doing with every single one of my settings, and I'm not ready for that. If I have a screen to show me when something is wrong with my exposure before I take the shot, that's just fine with me.

Moreover, do you know what the viewfinder is going to look like at f/16 with stop-down metering?

No, but I'm about to find out. I'm guessing it's going to be a bit dim.

The Sigma 70-210mm I bought will go to f/22. I'm not sure if I'll be using that aperture very much. I'm definitely going to play with it a bit, though!

Well, you'll learn all of this stuff, but I think before you learn those details you'll want a solid grounding in how the camera works with the kit lens. Maybe I'm underestimating you and you've already got this all under control. But it sounds like you need to chill out a bit and get used to your new hardware before buying more new hardware.

IMHO, I don't think I've bought anything more than what I need in order to do what I want to do. If I bought every single accessory I could find just because it says "Pentax" on it, then I'd be going a bit overboard.

I know my practice sessions are going to turn out some bad shots, but I'm one of those people who has to learn by doing. That's just the way my brain works. I could buy every "Photography For Total N00bz" book I can find, and I still wouldn't have a full grasp of things without the camera in my hand and practical real-world experience as to what happens when I do this or when I do that.

If you want some older lenses, I'd highly suggest starting with the Pentax 50mm f/1.7 and 28mm f/2.8 primes. The first gives you fairly good light gathering and decent quality glass, to compare other older lenses to. The second gives you a normal-range field of view on the crop sensor and is a great light, walkaround, "street" lens.

I've thought about adding a fixed-length prime, particularly the f/1.7 50mm, but with the 18-55mm kit lens for starters, I don't think it's truly necessary just yet. There may come a time when I decide that the kit lens isn't fast enough for certain conditions; that's when I'll consider a prime lens. I don't do very much low-light shooting now, but perhaps that's just because I've never really had the hardware for it. Time will tell. Remember that I'm just shooting mainly for my own personal enjoyment, not employment.

Anyway, good luck, keep us updated.

As soon as I get some good shots out of it, I'll definitely post a few.

[BCampbell]

Originally Posted by Crossfire905

Well, for one thing, it's rare indeed that I can even afford to build up a kit like this — otherwise, I would have upgraded long before now — and I'm taking advantage of it while I still have the money.

I'm no financial advisor but there's no reason to spend money just because you have it. One of the reasons that "you get what you pay for" is common advice here is because often, when you try to save money by buying a cheaper version of a lens, flash, whatever, you end up buying the more expensive version later anyway, and the money (and more importantly, time) you spent first is then wasted. But, it's your money, you're entitled to spend it as you see fit.

I know I have a lot to learn, and I don't expect to be winning awards on day one with the camera. These aren't just giddy impulse purchases — they're instructional tools. I've been wanting to learn SLR photography for a very long time.

To someone reading the thread from the beginning -- and to someone who considered the very path you went down, 500mm mirror lens and all -- it sure sounds like impulse buying. But, fair enough, you know yourself better than I do.

Not much, but I'll learn, and I expect it to be a lot of experimentation and trial-and-error.

What I'm really getting at is that you already have a learning curve simply with the new camera body. Using it with the kit lens will give you plenty to figure out for a while. Throwing in legacy lenses, a supertelephoto, trying to cobble on an old flash -- these all add additional and often fairly high levels of complexity to something that you're still learning the ropes on.

The older lenses present a very real example. It usually takes a few months for first-time DSLR owners just to figure out how to take a solid photo; you can see evidence of that in all of the threads here asking what did I do wrong. Again maybe I underestimate you; maybe you're already at that point. But if you're not, then you won't be able to tell if a photo taken with that zoom has errors because of the lens or because of user error. If you don't know that, you don't know how to fix the problem, and things sprial down from there.

[/quote]I've thought about adding a fixed-length prime, particularly the f/1.7 50mm, but with the 18-55mm kit lens for starters, I don't think it's truly necessary just yet.[/quote]

Well, that's my suggestion, the 50/1.7 or even the 50/2. The 28/2.8 is nice on the crop sensor, and the 28/3.5 actually has superior quality but isn't exactly a low light lens.

Anyway, that's all I'm trying to offer, advice. Take it or leave it. You seem to be happy with your path so far and it's your own path, I can't tell you not to go down it. I can tell you that I have experience with pretty much the same things you're doing now, but then again the things I learned from them are as you said, learned by doing. So maybe that is what you need. I do strongly suggest that you take one thing at a time. Don't touch that flash for a while; figuring out how to expose properly with a manual flash requires solid understanding of exposing properly without flash. I guess you;ll figure out the strengths and weaknesses of those lenses on your own. Etc etc.

In any case, enjoy what you have, just take it nice and easy. Have fun!

[BCampbell]

Well, it's been a couple weeks... get that K-x yet? Have any shots to share?

[Crossfire905]

Originally Posted by BCampbell

Well, it's been a couple weeks... get that K-x yet? Have any shots to share?

Yep. Here are a few, scaled down for posting.

1: Mirror lens, looking up into a tall palm tree from well over a hundred feet away, manual focus. Contrast problems with the original [overexposed shadows], corrected in post.

2: Sigma 70-210mm lens, manual focus. I think the background is a bit distracting, but there's virtually no angle from which I could have taken this without having something busy in the background.

3: 18-55mm kit lens, auto focus, perspective corrected in post [though perhaps not perfectly].

4: 18-55mm, auto focus [or maybe it was manual on this one?] and flash, close range. The lighting on this one is not exactly what I wanted — I think it might be a bit uneven and lacks contrast to the right of the frame.

[BCampbell]

Great, looks like you're having fun... keep it up...

[Crossfire905]

The first shot was at home [I just needed something conveniently distant without looking like I was pointing a big fat lens at my neighbors ]; the last three were at work this past weekend. I haven't had the time to get out and look for interesting stuff to shoot [which, actually, I've rarely done with any of my other cameras either]. I should be able to get some nice shots of the local mountains with the mirror lens, but the air quality hasn't been cooperating — it has been just a bit too hazy, and there would be a serious lack of contrast. I want a good clear day for that.