Digital Rangefinders

[Rajah Sulayman]

Are there any mid-price digital rangefinders out there besides the E-P2 and the GF1? I have an upcoming overseas trip in April and wanted to pick something up so that I could leave my d700 at home, but I'm not completely sold on the current offerings. They're both fantastic cameras, but each lacks some features that the other has. (The E-P2 has better high-ISO performance, but the GF1 has a flash. The GF1 has a faster stock lens by 1.3 stops, but the E-P2 has in-camera IS, etc).

Are there any overlooked gems out there, or is this it? Conversely, does anyone know what's looming on the horizon? Any word on a GF2? Samsung has made rumblings that they want to "own the mirrorless market" but so far they have no rangefinder-styled offerings.

What word from the front lines?

[LoveDSLR]

The only true digital rangefinders I know of are the Leica M8 and M9. E-P2 and the GF1 don't use rangefinder focusing system.

[Rajah Sulayman]

Originally Posted by LoveDSLR

The only true digital rangefinders I know of are the Leica M8 and M9. E-P2 and the GF1 don't use rangefinder focusing system.

Yeah, it's more a note to their style than anything else. I hate the term "mirrorless" (it sounds so wimpy for some reason) and I can't really think of another thing to call them other than micro four-thirds mirrorless compact cameras.

Doesn't quite roll off the tongue.

[LoveDSLR]

In that case I'm with you waiting for the next generation of mirrorless compact camera. I don't even mind checking out the E-PL1. Worse, the Sony Ultra-compact new camera with interchangeable lenses and APS-size sensor.

[sk66]

I'm sure you are aware of it, and not exactly an interchangeable lens rangefinder, but the G10-G11 are VERY nice cameras....I own one, and I feel that technology will have to advance quite a bit before I upgrade anything again.

[inkista]

Originally Posted by LoveDSLR

The only true digital rangefinders I know of are the Leica M8 and M9. ...

You forgot the Epson RD-1. It predated the M8. It's still a terrific buy and damn-near impossible to find on the used market. But it's still a good bit less expensive than a Leica digital M.

If you don't mind the chunky gripped styling, there's also the Panasonic G1 and GH1, who are priced a little lower than the GF1. But this is a completely new technology you're talking about. And I doubt the prices are going to get a whole helluva lot lower than similarly-aged dSLR bodies any time soon.

The main acronym I've seen for these kinds of cameras are EVIL. (Electronic Viewfinder Interchangeable Lens). Four-thirds is not required. There's also the new Samsung NX1 which is using an APS-C sensor, and of course, Sony just announced they're going to enter the arena as well with an APS-C:

Ultra-compact camera with interchangeable lenses and APS-C sensor
In 2010 Sony will introduce a new ultra-compact camera with interchangeable lenses that teams “any time, anywhere” convenience with DSLR picture quality. Exhibited in early concept mock-up form at PMA, the camera features a newly-developed Exmor APS HD CMOS sensor. It will also support HD video recording using the efficient AVCHD format. Shown in mock-up form alongside the compact, easy-to-use new camera is a selection of compatible interchangeable lenses.

Whether or not we get full-frame sensors like the ever-lustworthy M9 has, however, is going to be a matter of wait-and-see. If the offset microlens technology Leica created has a strong enough patent, it could be a 15 year wait...

And, of course, Samsung's got the S90 in its sights with the TL500/EX1.

To me, it's early days, yet, and it's still anybody's game. Hence my purchase of an S90 as my "interim" small-go camera until the EVIL dust settles. Sure it's still just a tiny P&S, but it makes me laugh that it can do 12800 iso and f/2.0 and thus shoot in the dark if it really really wants to.

[Rajah Sulayman]

Originally Posted by LoveDSLR

In that case I'm with you waiting for the next generation of mirrorless compact camera. I don't even mind checking out the E-PL1. Worse, the Sony Ultra-compact new camera with interchangeable lenses and APS-size sensor.

Normally I'd have no problem with waiting, but I'm going back home to the Philippines in April for the first time in nearly a decade and I want to have a decent camera with me. My d700 is too heavy and too expensive (between it and my 28-70 walkaround Nikkor, that's already $4,000 worth of gear) that I'd feel a lot better leaving it at home. But I don't think my LX3 will be enough to satisfy my needs.

Originally Posted by sk66

I'm sure you are aware of it, and not exactly an interchangeable lens rangefinder, but the G10-G11 are VERY nice cameras....I own one, and I feel that technology will have to advance quite a bit before I upgrade anything again.

They are (my sister has a G10), but I'm specifically looking for a small stylish camera with an interchangeable lens system. I currently pack a Lumix LX3 and as far as walkarounds go, it's amazing. f/2.0 at 24mm and RAW shooting, all in a camera that can fit in my coat pocket? Yes please.

I'd only ever really leave it for a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera (maybe I'll start calling them MILCs).

Originally Posted by inkista

The main acronym I've seen for these kinds of cameras are EVIL. (Electronic Viewfinder Interchangeable Lens). Four-thirds is not required.

True, but I want something small and pocketable. If I were looking at chunky bridge-sized cameras I'd just as soon buy a used d60

[OsmosisStudios]

Rumors are of a NIkon EVIL camera sometime this year. Will be too late for your April trip, though.

[sk66]

Originally Posted by rajah sulayman

Normally I'd have no problem with waiting, but I'm going back home to the Philippines in April for the first time in nearly a decade and I want to have a decent camera with me. My d700 is too heavy and too expensive (between it and my 28-70 walkaround Nikkor, that's already $4,000 worth of gear) that I'd feel a lot better leaving it at home. But I don't think my LX3 will be enough to satisfy my needs.

insure it and take it...it IS only a tool after all. As for weight vs performance, isn't that always the compromise? I could have pretty well done my entire trip to china with only my G10....instead I carried MUCH MORE...but maybe the few shots the G10 would have missed were worth it...

[Rajah Sulayman]

Originally Posted by sk66

insure it and take it...it IS only a tool after all.

The best insurance is not putting something at risk in the first place.

I've filed insurance claims for things in the past, and it's an interminable experience under the best of circumstances. Police reports aren't as easy to get in a third world country where it takes money just to get things rolling.

Thing is, I don't need to bring my d700. I'm not doing any work while I'm there, and a good EVIL will suit me just as well as a dSLR. When I went back to SF for a month this past Christmas, I brought my d700 and all my gear with me. I hardly ever used it. My LX3 was all I needed for almost the entire trip.

As for weight vs performance, isn't that always the compromise? I could have pretty well done my entire trip to china with only my G10....instead I carried MUCH MORE...but maybe the few shots the G10 would have missed were worth it...

That's the crux of it. I feel that the amount of performance I'd have to sacrifice is more than made up for by the amount of inconvenience I'll be sparing myself -- so long as I manage to find a decent camera. My LX3 wouldn't quite be enough, but a pseudo-rangefinder EVIL with a decent selection of lenses would be perfect.