Is the D5000 for me? Follow my logic... or destroy it!

[PaulVI]

I'm a parent of a 3 year-old and have been into photography mainly because of him. I've been using a Canon A630, which I chose for its vari-angle LCD and manual modes (though I'm no master photog --- a newbie, I'll admit). Frankly, I've grown dissatisfied with (1) its inability to catch the action (continuous shooting is 1.8 fps according to dpreview, but it seems slower) and (2) its poor indoor shooting ability. On both counts, I've tried my best to manage under these limitations, but I'm convinced that I need more horsepower.

So I went to dpreview again and constructed numerous side-by-sides... I thought, for budget, that the Canon SX20IS would be a likely candidate (for its price and vari-angle), but users pan the low-light performance. The new 4/3s cameras looked promising --- in particular, the Panasonic Lumix GF1 caught my eye (large sensor, yet compact compared to a DSLR), but the price exceeded that of the entry-level DSLRs, of which no one complained about low-light performance. So, after much resistance, I considered making the leap to DSLRs. (Plus, my cousin, also a new parent, said "just do it".)

It came down to the Canon T1i or the Nikon D5000, because they shoot movies, and I do use this capability a lot on my A630 already. I'm settling on the D5000 for its vari-angle LCD screen, because I know from my own experience how useful it is. I'm convinced that it has a lot to do with my ability to catch shots of my toddler: composing on the run (in pursuit!) and composing at different angles (esp. high angle, cause I'm a shorty!).

So there. I've been spending more time at Adorama, coming up with different kit configs to fit in a budget.

What do you think? Am I getting ahead of myself? (Don't jump to DSLR?) Is there another camera that I haven't looked at that isn't a DSLR but has good (good!) low-light performance, has the features to help me grow as a photog ('cause, hey, the empty nest is just 20... or 30... years away, and there will be creative photography to occupy me), and oh yeah - possibly a vari-angle LCD (negotiable)?

Thanks! (Did I mention that I'm a newbie? Be kind! But brutally honest!)

(Oh yeah, if it's the D5000 for me, is the 18-55mm lens all the zoom that I'll need for a long while? My cousin bought a 18-200mm...)

[OsmosisStudios]

Logic seems sound to me.

One thing that was overlooked with the 4/3 segment is autofocus: its quicker than most P&S cameras, but it's by no means lightning quick. You'll get better results from a DSLR.

That being said, I think you've got the wrong idea with the screen on a dSLR. For starters, using it as liveview (as you would have with the 4/3 and P&S cameras) isn't going to work that great for a moving 3 year old. The AF in this mode is far too slow. You'll have to use the viewfinder: so the swivelling LCD wont be a factor for actual shooting. You have to remember, these cameras are designed for use with the viewfinder and the inclusion of a live-view system is very new still.

In such cases, I'd recommend going to a proper camera store and trying both models for yourself. Keep in mind that the T1i was just replaced (with the T2i) so you might be able to find one on the cheap. Also keep in mind that the D5000 will only autofocus with AF-S lenses: while this is becoming less of a problem (and likely wont be in your situation), it is still something to keep in mind.

As for lenses:
The 18-200, be it from Canon, Nikon or any other manufacturer, is a great lens for the hobbyist looking to get a good range. It'll likely fit your bill nicely. The only real downside is that it's big, heavy, expensive and the actual image quality from it can vary. SOme people will say that they love theirs, and they do, but I was never satisfied with the image quality.

Instead, I'd suggest the kit lens (18-55 VR) for most stuff and maybe the 35mm f/1.8 DX (Nikon, if you go that route) along with it. Theyre very different lenses even though they both cover the 35mm. It'll help you out with portraits and indoor shots too.

In short, the logic is sound, it just needs a BIT of tweaking. The live-view autofocus is the biggest stumbling block, but its not something youre ikely to overcome with a dSLR, at least not in this generation. Learn to shoot through the viewfinder, getting down and dirty or up high. You *will* be rewarded.

[PaulVI]

I knew I'd get a quality answer at DPS! Thanks for the quick reply!

So bottom line: D5000 is a good start for decent indoors- and burst-mode kid shooting. There are no P&S or bridge cameras that do both of these. Right?

Thanks a million, especially that bit about AF in live view.

[kirbinster]

The D5000 is a very nice camera, you'll note I have one in addition to two more expensive Nikons. I really like mine, its small, light weight and gives image quality which is just as good as its bigger brothers. BUT its not just the camera that controls low light capabilities, its the lens. You won't get really good low light capability with the kit lenses, they just are not that fast. The 35mm f/1.8 is probably a good idea for a fairly fast lens to add to the kit lens. I would go for the camera, unless you think you need one with more dedicated control and a motor in the body, in which case you might have to move up to a D90.

[inkista]

Two cameras you may have overlooked, simply because the price tag is close enough to a low-end dSLR (and they don't do HD video): the Canon G11 ($460) and S90 ($400). These are the top-of-the-line Canon P&S cameras with RAW and full Manual shooting modes. The G11 has a flip-out LCD, and usable iso 800 and 1600 levels, as well as a flash hotshoe, and a port for a cable release. I'd highly recommend taking a look at the samples on dpreview. The S90 may be even more interesting. No flip-out LCD/hotshoe/remote port, but it's shirt-pocketable size, and has the same sensor and iso performance as the G11.

Also, Olympus just announced the E-PL1, which brings the camera+kit price for micro4/3 (which, btw, is not the same as 4/3), down to MSRP of $599. Which probably means $500-$550 street price within six months.

I think a dSLR wouldn't be too much for you, but the sticker-shock can be something else. Keep in mind that to fully outfit with a dSLR system (i.e., lenses, bags, filters, flash, tripod, etc. etc.), most folks end up spending two to three times what they did on the initial camera kit. For some of us who are much less thrifty, it's a neverending money pit. Remember, you have to budget for lenses, too. An 18-55 VR will only get you so far. It's a great vacation and snapshot lens, but for low light performance, it's not going to get you what you want.

I'd recommend reading this article on max. aperture to see how the lens affects available light performance.

[PaulVI]

Inkista, thanks for those suggestions and for the link to the great set of articles on lenses. I never looked at the specs of the S90. But after starting this thread, and getting scared of the escalating cost of a D5000 kit, I tried a feature search at dpreview using only "aperture range" : <=2. Results were 4 cameras, which included the S90! The others were: Ricoh GR Digital III, Leica D-Lux 4, and the Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3.

All of these go "down" to f/2.0 (Ricoh to 1.9). (Can I say "down" referring to the lower number, or should I say "as fast as", to be in the club? ) The Leica and Panasonic go to 2.8, S90 to 4.9, and the Ricoh to 9.0. Does that mean "forget about zoom"? Are these "snappies for people" or "snappies for artists"?

All shoot video, and the Leica and Panasonic shoot 2.5 fps in continuous mode. (Tell me the secret: these are the same camera, aren't they? If so, the Panasonic has the more palatable price.)

Given this new (to me) information, could one of these cameras (Leica or Pan.) do for me? Better indoor results, fewer missed shots (better at catching action)? I can forgo flip-screen if the LCDs have OK viewing angles (I'll research this).

Can I also say that Leica would be good for my "style"?

Seems like I quickly backed off the D5000! Sorry if this is a forum faux pas! (I.e, should I have started a new thread?) The DSLR will always be a consideration for me, but the above cameras might be more in my size (self-contained, and pocketable?) and budget.

Thanks!

[PaulVI]

Hmm, dpreview shows: no live view on any of those 4...

[RichardTaylor]

The default for point & shoot cameras, now days, is "live view" however some may have an optical viewfinder as well.

If you want to have the best chance of "capturing the action" buy a (D)SLR

The trade off is size, $$$$, and yopu may have to sometimes lie on your stomach.

For general purpose shooting like travel, flowers and posed pics a P&S is fine. .

[OsmosisStudios]

Originally Posted by PaulVI

Hmm, dpreview shows: no live view on any of those 4...

DPReview has some erroneous facts in those tables: The DLUX4, LX3, GRIII and S90 all have live view. They function just as your A630 does.

The other thing to consider is that while they have f/2 lenses, they are often a) not as good, b) still P&S cameras. That means that f/2 isnt really f/2, so youre not getting the same low-light abilities. The other thing is that these lenses are f/2 at the wide end, not the telephoto, so youre gonna end up with grain and noise and lowered image quality at the long end.

Seriously, if youre looking for some with a fast AF, youre not going to get live view at the same time.

[sk66]

I would NOT buy a P&S for indoor use....Not even the S90/G11 (I own a G10).
The fastest P&S is still slow in every aspect compared to an entry level DSLR.
I agree with the superzoom for general use and a fast lens for indoors.
Buy the camera body that "fits you" better and is more natural to operate.

Keep your A630 for those times when a DSLR is too much to bring along....