Black and White Photography

[i speak in math]

I love shooting b&w. I have tons of them. I always shoot in color and convert/edit in post. The only problem I have with shooting in monochrome is that the colors tend to be mucky gray instead of b&w. You let the camera choose how to convert a particular color to greyscale. I like to change the hue of the colors before the conversion to show more contrast between colors. I also like to add some warming and occasionally some cross processing like colors back into it.

From Pentax K20D

From Strobist

From Pentax K200D

From Pentax K20D

[EasternSierra]

Originally Posted by i speak in math

I love shooting b&w. I have tons of them. I always shoot in color and convert/edit in post. The only problem I have with shooting in monochrome is that the colors tend to be mucky gray instead of b&w. You let the camera choose how to convert a particular color to greyscale. I like to change the hue of the colors before the conversion to show more contrast between colors. I also like to add some warming and occasionally some cross processing like colors back into it.

You ONLY "allow the camera to choose" if you don't use contrast filters. I have complete and total control over the contrast, dynamic range and exposure value of my B&W shots. I have complete and total control over whether it is high key, low key, or average. I have complete control over the depth, the clarity, and the content when shooting in monotone.

Now...you, obviously, have a comprehensive understanding of what it takes to create a wonderful B&W image. With this understanding comes a comprehension of how to properly convert, using all of the tools available to you. That works great for you.

The "colors" are not "mucky and grey" if you properly expose and use contrast filters. The tones of any B&W image will be very neutral, with very low contrast, if you don't expose properly, and MAKE the tones contrast. Neutral tones are similar, and always will be, unless you use filtration to create xcontrast. You and I do the exact same thing when we apply our different filtration. You apply digital filters, after exposure, to improve and increase your contrast. I use digital and glass filters to improve and increase dynamic contrast during the exposure. If done properly, the end result for both procedures is a quality B&W image. If done improperly, the end result for BOTH procedures is a flat image that lacks dynamic range and contrast.

As I said above, converting works well if done properly, and I am not saying that shooting in monotone is a be all solution, nor am I saying that it is the "always better" option. I am saying ONLY that shooting in monotone is a perfectly acceptable and viable solution for capturing fantastic B&W images.

The problem is with statements like "never shoot in monotone". Why not? There is no truth to this statement. It is a myth. And it is typically a lack of comprehension of the techniques involved in capturing a GOOD monochromatic exposure that cause people to think like that.

Learn to walk before you try to run. Learn how to properly visualize and PRE-visualize your exposures. Learn how to predict and determine your contrast and dynamic ranges. Learn how to control your exposure values for a specific contrast range, and learn how to properkly expose a B&W image.

When you limit your techniques, you limit your options. The options available for creating a great B&W are both limited. Converting is limited by digital capabilities. Shooting in monotone is limited by human capabilities. Both are equally limited, and equally viable as a solution. And both will produce fantastic results when done properly, and horrible results if done improperly.

[jakessnaps]

Originally Posted by i speak in math

I love shooting b&w. I have tons of them. I always shoot in color and convert/edit in post. The only problem I have with shooting in monochrome is that the colors tend to be mucky gray instead of b&w. You let the camera choose how to convert a particular color to greyscale. I like to change the hue of the colors before the conversion to show more contrast between colors. I also like to add some warming and occasionally some cross processing like colors back into it.

you've got some great shots

[cunoz]

The knowledge is staggering.. I will turn old color pictures to B&w in an effort to see how different colors look against each other. I thought it was a good idea and hopefully it will help with tones and contrast.
i speak in math: thank you. Your photos are beautiful. I will give your suggestions a try.
EasternSierra: Even though I am older than you, when I grow up, I would like to take b&w's as good as yours. They don't make, or I haven't found, scenery like that in southeast kansas. But I won't stop looking. You spoke of using filters. Are you talking about the kind that is put on the front of your camera lens? And if so, which ones do you suggest? Thanks.

[EasternSierra]

Originally Posted by cunoz

The knowledge is staggering.. I will turn old color pictures to B&w in an effort to see how different colors look against each other. I thought it was a good idea and hopefully it will help with tones and contrast.
i speak in math: thank you. Your photos are beautiful. I will give your suggestions a try.
EasternSierra: Even though I am older than you, when I grow up, I would like to take b&w's as good as yours. They don't make, or I haven't found, scenery like that in southeast kansas. But I won't stop looking. You spoke of using filters. Are you talking about the kind that is put on the front of your camera lens? And if so, which ones do you suggest? Thanks.

Yes, glass filters can be put on the front of your lens to capture in monotone. There is also a selection of built-in digital filters in most dSLR cameras that operate the same way. These are called "color contrast filters", anmd they are designed to boost certain contrasts within the scene. Brand won't make much difference because they are just colored, coated glass. Check you in-camera filters, too, though. Maybe save a few bucks. If not, the most useful ones, IMO, are red, green, yellow, and orange.

I also use circular polarizing filters and graduated neutral density filters religiously in my landscape shooting.

[cunoz]

I put my camera on monotone and went out to shoot today. Tried to underexpose a little. With all the snow, everything is black and white anyway. I like the 'feel' of underexposed pictures but got carried away. With practice hopefully that will get better. I found the filters on my camera. Thanks for the heads up. I'm going to set the camera up on a tripod and shoot the same shot through all the different filters to see the difference they make. Thanks again.

[thomasfolkeandersen]

To me it boils down to what works for you.

If it works for you to capture in monochrome, then do so. If it works for to capture in colour and then edit in monochrome, then do so. If a mixture of the two works, by all means.

I can understand the reaction to 'always shoot in colour', but I guess one of the benefits is that you can always convert to B&W but you cannot regain colour once captured in monochrome. Sure, if your final intention is for a B&W image, then that benefit doesn't matter.

However, it seems pointless to debate 'what's better' between the two, at the end of the day it comes down to the image, the tonal range, the mood and the reaction the image invokes in a viewer. Not how it was captured technically.

If the result was been achieved by originally capturing in monochrome or in colour is basically as pointless as whether the image was captured with a Nikon or Canon camera.

[thomasfolkeandersen]

And to Cunoz' original question - I guess there are no real hard and fast rules as to what makes a good black and white image, but a traditional black and white image will often display a good range of tones right from white to black and all the grey tones in between.

That said, I have seen many great dark black and whites and many great high key (lots of white or bright tones) black and white - the latter sometimes perhaps with just a small area of real dark tones and a large area of white (bright) tones.

Look at Ansel Adams and Edward Weston for some classic black and whites. Cole Thompson as a current photographer also produces some beautiful classic black and white images.

But, it all comes down to what you like and what you would like to frame and put on your wall.

[inkista]

Originally Posted by thomasfolkeandersen

I can understand the reaction to 'always shoot in colour', but I guess one of the benefits is that you can always convert to B&W but you cannot regain colour once captured in monochrome. ...

Only if you shoot JPEG. If you shoot RAW, you can shoot in B&W, yet still retain all the color information. That's my preferred method when I want to create a B&W image. I have the benefits of reviewing in B&W to see if I need to adjust/reshoot at the time I take the shot, and I can still do full-on B&W conversion in post starting with all the color data, and the ability to apply any color filter I'd like after-the-fact.

[Free]

Originally Posted by inkista

Only if you shoot JPEG. If you shoot RAW, you can shoot in B&W, yet still retain all the color information. That's my preferred method when I want to create a B&W image. I have the benefits of reviewing in B&W to see if I need to adjust/reshoot at the time I take the shot, and I can still do full-on B&W conversion in post starting with all the color data, and the ability to apply any color filter I'd like after-the-fact.

That's exactly what I was thinking, but the conversation got a bit technical and I thought I'd get shot down if I mentioned it

I go out and shoot in black and white and Lightroom gives it all back to me in colour! So I've stopped shooting in B&W