filling the frame?

[liverlipsyyz]

i understand all rules are meant to be broken, but in general terms - i'm wondering about the composition technique of filling the frame. does filling the frame with the subject over-ride the rule of thirds? or do you pick a point in your subject that fills the frame and put that small focal point at an intersection? a flower for example, or a close-up of an animal, or a head shot or portrait? if all those shots fill the frame how can you also use the rule of thirds? i plan to go out today at lunch and shoot some flowers that fill my frame so i'm wondering how or if to also incorporate the rule of thirds.

[Ginger Pixie]

How close is close? I did some close up's of flowers, and had their centre on one of the intersection points, and I'd say to compose an animal close up or portrait with an eye on one of the four.

example:

[Jim Bryant]

Rules are made to be broken. Since it's digital, shoot, putting the flower in all parts of the frame as you'll never know what the end results will look like. Just play around and have fun!

[superdewa]

I think the rules of composition are better looked at as guides. They are helpful indicators as to why some photos are more pleasing to the eye than others.

Take a lot of photos -- photos that follow the rules and photos that don't. Then put them on your computer and see what you find pleasing straight out of the camera. Then play around with cropping on your computer -- see how coming in close or changing the symmetry can change things. What do you like? What don't you like?

Use this to influence how you take photos, but don't stop experimenting. Keep taking the photos you're pretty sure you'll like but also the ones that break rules. Keep evaluating.

[Xposurepro]

as everyone already stated rules are meant to be broken ... as for your question does filling the frame override the rule of thirds .. it does but only if you want it to. You can combine both techniques. In the example of a headshot. The face can fill the frame however you might want to place the eyes across the top 3rd. So you're using both methods. You just have to take each situation and ask yourself questions about what you want to do before you shoot ... then try it out. Combine as many techniques as you want. Say we take that headshot situation and make it a little kids face with their head stuck between two posts on a stair railing .. now you can use filling the frame by moving in close, rule of thirds with the eyes on the top 3rd and framing by pulling back just enough to allow the posts to frame the face.

[monkeyfinger]

What everyone has said so far is right - break any and all rules you like. Essentially the only real rule of composition is 'Make the photo look good'. If that means putting your subject bang in the middle, and miles away, then so be it.

[RustySterling]

I use to shoot for newspapers. While I was still in college and doing my internship at a local newspaper, my editor use to tell me to "always get close" and then "when you think you are close enough get closer." That served me very well for many years in the news business. But I also learned a few things on my own. For example, when arriving at a news scene start shooting wide, and then get closer. Then switch to longer lenses and keep shooting AND get closer. Then when practically on top of the scene switch between wide and mid-range lenses and keep shooting.

The whole point that I learned was to just keep shooting. Of course it was film, and I would run through 10+ rolls of 36-exposure at some scenes (usually highly newsworthy and often a disaster of some sort). But I'd keep pointing and shooting and constantly capturing images. Sometimes the best image was from far away. Sometimes it was right on top of the event. And I was always trying to fill the frame and at the same time capture the story.

In the end, it was me and the photo editor who decided on the one, two or (if lucky) three shots that would be used with the story.

Yes, break the rules.

[Chip]

RustySterling - Welcome to DPS. Sure seems that you've "been there, done that." Thanks for your input.

[RustySterling]

'Sure seems that you've "been there, done that."'

Yeah, but it's been awhile since I've done any serious shooting. I'm just getting back in and I'm sure glad I found this website.

[vandergus]

I think "rules" is a bit of a misnomer when talking about the rule of thirds or even filling the frame. "Techniques" is probably a more descriptive word. And applying techniques to a photograph give the viewer different impressions of the subject. Heck, placing the subject dead center could be considered a technique. It can make the subject more direct, or confrontational. Moving the subject from the center tends to make the subject more interesting, for whatever reason. Continue placing the subject closer to the edge of the frame and it becomes less interesting and more odd or eccentric. It just depends on what type of response you want from the viewer. It just happens that most subjects look good placed on the intersections of the thirds, so it became a "rule".

So when you talk about filling the frame, you have to ask yourself what this technique will do for the viewer. I think it makes the viewer feel closer to the subject. It can also make the subject feel contained or even clostrophobic.

So before you decide what technique to use, you need to know what type of photograph you're trying to make, and how you want your viewer to feel about it. Then you can decide whether filling the frame or composing on the thirds is more important.