Noise Issue PLEASE HELP

[rickp1]

Ok guys and gals, I’m having an issue that has happened more than once now and it’s really frustrating me.

I first noticed it shooting my 50D and what’s happening is my images have some noise in them. I’m not shooting these at night, they were shot in the middle of the day with an in AV mode and an ISO of 100.

Now here is the part that’s very frustrating, the same thing happened to me yesterday shooting my new 7D in the middle of the day also in AV mode with an ISO of 100 for the most part. The lens I was using was 24-105mm f4.0 or a 17-55mm f2.8 lens. It happens with either lens.

Can someone please tell me what’s going on??
Does weather have anything to do with it. I’m down in south florida and it’s hot and humid during the shoots. Here’s the other kicker, that I cant’ figure out, distance. I took a couple of pictures and I was standing about 4-5 feet and those images came out tack-sharp. I mean i can blowup that image 200-300% and it still looks just perfect. This really confuses me. I don’t think it’s the camera and I can’t think on anything I’m doing wrong.
I’m also calling Canon today to get their take on it.
I’m including some images so you can see what I’m talking about. I have more posted as well.

Please any help will be greatly appreciated. This is driving me nuts.

I have more images with this issue here:

Noise issue pictures by rickp1 - Photobucket



1st Image Exif
Lens: 24-105mm f 4.0 L series
Exposure: 1/60
ISO:100
Metering: Evaluative
Focal Length: 34mm
Aperture: f4.0
WB: Cloudy
distance to subject: 4.5m

Image2

Image 2
Lens: 17-55mm f2.8
Exposure: 1/10
ISO:200
Metering: Evaluative
Focal Length: 40mm
Aperture: f22
WB: Cloudy
distance to subject: 73m

[autofocus]

The images all look a little underexposed which will tend to exacerbate the noise. Just curious, are you shooting JPEGs at best resolution?

[private]

The camera may have looked for the brighter spot - thus underexposing the whole picture. You should try your hand at manual - after all, your brain is smarter that the camera's brain - mainly b/c YOU know how you want the pic to look.

In the first one - a flash would have helped or you could have bumbed up your ISO. When I forst started playing in manual, I would shoot in auto, check out the settings that the camera chose and if I liked it, took it in manual and try and duplicate or adjust the shutter spped, ISO or aperture to what I wanted.

Now, I cannot live w/o manual.

In the meantime, the photos can be run through noiseware - the community edition is free. What PPing software are you using?

[Vagebond]

If you shoot RAW or manual please disregard this post

My 450D has a custom function called "auto lighting optimizer" that's switched on by default. The manual says it can introduce noise and it does. Since switching it off I get only explainable noise and more predictable lighting. Maybe it's worth a try if the 50D has the same option.

[rickp1]

Everyone says the same thing "underexposed".

First off, thank you to all that took the time to reply. I was able to follow the replies from my phone.

Yes I shoot in raw and I cropped the images enough to get the full 100% preview. Other than that there's no PP on them. For PPing I use CS4 and Topaz for noise reduction.

I got the soft image point some of you made and that I should increase the shutter speed, but what exactly is a soft image?

The second part is what really confused me. Shooting in AV mode.

I was under the impression that by shooting AV mode all I really had to worry about was how much depth of field I wanted to achieve, and that the camera would configure the correct shutter speed. BTW I also usually meter using evaluative metering, again based on circumstance.
I shoot mainly in AV mode so do you mean to increase shutter speed by adjusting the ISO or aperture?? Is that the case?
Also, if under exposed how is increasing shutter speed helping, wont that underexpose it further?

Also the only reason I shoot in f22 is because I wanted to ensure the whole image was in focus.

One user suggested I make sure I use the correct focus points. That is one part of my (sad) process I made sure I was doing properly. My focus point was dead on my subject on every image I took.

Back to the shutter speed. As I was out taking pictures with the family this afternoon, I paid attention to the AV shutter speed compared to the manual mode and I did notice quite a difference. The shutter speed in AV mode was much lower at times. Since I dont' know how to control the speed in AV mode I shot in manual for the most part. I also usually shoot at ISO 100 based on the rule that we should shoot with the lowest ISO as possible based on the situation.

Here's another question based on the comments and aperture settings I used while shooting on a sunny day.
I know it can all be different based on shooting situations. Today I tried to use the 16 rule. But can you guys give me any tips on what settings to dial when shooting in a sunny day, or what are the range of normal numbers on a sunny day? Also, is there any reference material I can read on this. Like I said I thought shooting in AV mode was pretty straight forward, but I guess not.
I think you're right I'm going to try manual more often to see how it goes.


I'm sure by now you've gathered that I really don't have a clue what I'm doing. I just enjoy photography and I'm trying to teach myself how to do it. Please explain things to me as if teaching a very new photographer how to achieve perfect images.

Again thank you for all the help
R.

[lkbart]

Originally Posted by rickp1

I was down in the Florida Keys yesterday just relaxing an i took some pictures with my 50D. However most of the images came out somewhat grainy. The one thing I did do that I haven't done in the past was to stack 2 Singh Ray filters, a LB Color Intensifier and an LB Warming Polarizer. As a result I had to increase the exposure and sometimes the ISO, but with the ISO i never went over 400, as a matter of fact I usually shot at about 100 or 200.

So the question is can stacking the filters case the grainy effect if not what could have?

Thanks

I pulled this quote from your earlier thread. I had an issue a while back with some shots from my 50D being darker/softer/grainier than what I expected & later realized I had left a polarizing filter on my lens from an earlier shoot in direct sunlight. I may be completely wrong, but I think that if the polarizer isn't positioned correctly (reason for the moving part of the filter) &/or if you are shooting in less than direct sunlight, that it can be the reason your photos are darker & grainier.

Somebody with more experience & filter knowledge than me can surely correct this or confirm it. Could this be the issue?

[Vagebond]

This article starts with the basics, including the aperture/speed/ISO, and then gets to the sunny 16 rule, and includes a couple of exposure charts: Ultimate Exposure Computer

I'd like to see the whole pictures because viewing a crop can give the wrong impression. Especially the picture of the lady gives me the impression that the photo as a whole isn't underexposed. Her cap is overexposed in places, the roof on the top right looks on the verge of overexposure. Between the roof and her cap there's an area with shadow, then light (the sleeve and arm on the right) and then shade again where she's standing. Her backpack straps are black. That would be murder on any evaluative light metering, so her face could indeed be appear underexposed while the picture as a whole could be just about as right as the metering can get it. Unless you use exposure compensation to overexpose in order to get her face right -this for Av, exposure compensation doesn't work in manual, you just adjust exposure by aperture/speed/Iso there.

The picture at the marina, aside from perhaps the same kind of effect, was taken at 1/10 sec. That's almost begging for blurring unless shot using a monopod or tripod.

[rickp1]

vagebond,
here is the full image with the backpack. Also here is the link to the full images as well for your viewing.

Like i mentioned on other posts the images are a bit underexposed but never to the point that I needed a monopod or tripod. I got a slight left shift on the histogram but that's it.

As for the filters. When I shot with the 50D i used filters but on this recent event it was on a clean lens, nothing on it at all.
Here is the other image shot with a 50D http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/o...se50dImage.jpg

Let me know if you need the Exif Data



Thanks
R.

[Sterling]

I was under the impression that by shooting AV mode all I really had to worry about was how much depth of field I wanted to achieve, and that the camera would configure the correct shutter speed.

The shutter speed in AV mode was much lower at times. Since I dont' know how to control the speed in AV mode I shot in manual for the most part.

I've quoted these sentences because I think that understanding these issues will solve many of the problems with your photos.

Your first statement is mostly correct - in Av mode, your desired depth of field is only one thing you have to think of. While the camera will automatically set the shutter speed to produce a "correct" exposure, it has no way to know what your intentions are. It knows that you want a proper exposure of the marina (which it provided) but it didn't know that you can't hold your camera rock steady at 1/10 second (almost no one can). If you had tried the same shot at dusk at f22 the camera may have chosen 4 seconds as a shutter speed and the result would be a totally blurred mess. You can't assume the camera will figure out everything for you. That's what the auto modes are for. For example, If you choose Sports mode, the camera assumes you want some fast action captured so it does what it can to maximize the shutter speed it provides.

If you want to use the semi-auto modes (P, Av, Tv) then you have to pay more attention to what the camera is doing. If you are going to choose f22 "to ensure the whole image is in focus", then you will force the camera to compensate for that tiny aperture with a longer shutter speed. The way to control the shutter speed in Av mode is by changing either ISO or the aperture. If you want to leave the ISO at 100 then you have to change the aperture. In the marina shot, you could have reduced your aperture by 3 stops to f/8 and your new shutter speed would've been increased 3 stops to 1/80 and your shot most likely would've been sharp. And at f/8 everything from 8 or 9 meters out to infinity would be acceptably sharp anyway. There really was no reason in this case to use f/22 to keep everything in focus.

Hope that helps.

[rickp1]

Well, I have an update on this soft image issue and it's not a positive one.

I got a chance to see the images I shot on monday, where I tried to bump up my shutter speed in hopes of getting sharper images. Well that did not happen. Something else is going on here on top of a slow shutter speed.

The only images that are consistently coming in tack sharp are portrait images at distances of less that 5 feet. Those are perfect as far as sharpness goes.

I called Canon on this and he asked me what AF mode I was using. I told him I was using the Zone AF mode and he said that might be the problem. The Tech said he's known of people having issues in the past using the zone mode when shooting subject past 6 feet or so and getting soft images. He said it worked best for close subject, which would fit the bill for what's happening to me.
The mode he suggested I use is the AF point expansion mode.

I'm going to give this a try and give you guys an update as soon as I can.

Second Update:
It seems the 7D has focusing issues just like what I'm experiencing. The more research I do the more info I'm finding on this.