Deciding between 2 cameras - my list of pros & cons but which matter most?

[CourtJester]

Hi all, first post here, been lurking for a while. So, I am in the market for my first dSLR and am very passionate about photography. I just want to upgrade beyond my Canon P&S (which has treated me very well). I have read a mind numbing amount of reviews recently comparing my 2 choices, the Canon Rebel T1i & Nikon D5000. Naturally, I am driving myself crazy like usual when I review products I'm interested in purchasing (due diligence to an absurd level if you will). My question isn't WHICH camera to choose, but rather what aspects of each matter the MOST to those who have been using dSLRs for a while.

What I like about the Canon over the Nikon:
-The LCD specs and I don't care for the swiveling screen of the Nikon
- Depth of field control
-14 bit RAW vs 12 bit
-All lenses can AF & possibilities seem greater to expand into better lenses (price)
-MUCH easier to change settings like ISO & aperture w/o going through menus
-Lighter in weight

What I like about the Nikon over the Canon:
-Faster continuous shooting
-Advanced scene modes (although I plan to shoot mostly in manual)

From those points alone it seems like I should just go with the Canon but my big problem is looking at comparison shots between the 2 models, I think I like Nikon's more (though I'm having trouble locating side by side RAW comparisons). Also, looking through Flickr shots using each camera, I like what people have done with the Nikon more as well, Canon & Nikon. Of course, BETTER photographers could be taking the Nikon shots as opposed to the Canon but who knows. If it helps at all, the main thing I like to shoot is landscapes, macro, & want to delve into the world of HDR. Excuse this extremely long post but I just want to lay it all out here for people who know what they are doing! Thanks in advance!

[inkista]

Originally Posted by CourtJester

...(though I'm having trouble locating side by side RAW comparisons).

Here ya go:
Nikon D5000 Review: 29. Compared to (RAW): Digital Photography Review

Also, be aware of what resolution means in 100% crop comparisons.

Also, looking through Flickr shots using each camera, I like what people have done with the Nikon more as well. Canon & Nikon. Of course, BETTER photographers could be taking the Nikon shots as opposed to the Canon but who knows.

Better people, different lenses. You may want to look on pbasecom/cameras and pixel-peeper.com as well as Flickr, to make sure hardware's equalized. But honestly, I'm guessing better photographers for your personal tastes. Doesn't mean buying a Nikon instantly makes you a better photographer.

If it helps at all, the main thing I like to shoot is landscapes, macro, & want to delve into the world of HDR. Excuse this extremely long post but I just want to lay it all out here for people who know what they are doing! Thanks in advance!

Nikon might be the better choice for you, but not necessarily at the D5000 level. The D300s has exposure bracketing to die for when it comes to HDR. On the Canon side to get more than three-frame AEB, you have to go up to the 1 series . Also, Nikon has more wide-angle lens options; landscape photography more typically uses wide angle lenses.

However, on the macro side, Canon has some considerably less expensive choices, lens-wise, and is perfectly capable of doing landscapes as well. And if you're shooting HDR with a tripod, being in Manual and bracketing manually isn't that much harder.

I think you may be in the "How does it feel in your hands?" stage. Play with them in a store and see which one you like then. Reading reviews online only gets you so far.

Secondly, learn about and price out some lenses. The camera body is only half of the system. The lenses are the other half, and are likely to last you a heck of a lot longer and be worth more in five years' time than your camera body will. This is where getting a dSLR seriously parts ways with P&S "upgrading". You're not just buying a camera, but a camera system.

[dakwegmo]

Of the things you've listed there are only three things that would influence my buying decision. The swivel screen LCD on the D5000, and the menu controls, and lens selection.

I've actually considerd buying a D5000 jsut for the swivel screen. When using it with Live View, it can be a major advantage for getting shots you might not be able to get without it, especially if you're shooting Macro and Landscapes. Imagine not having to crawl around on the ground to see whether your shot is composed properly.

Secondly, most reviewers say that Nikon blows away Canon as far as ergonomics are concerned. From my experience using both a Canon and Nikon with one wheel controls, I also prefer the exposure contorls on Nikons. You're experience may be different, especially since you're used to shooting a Canon P&S. If you haven't tried this out for yourself, go to a camera shop that has both and get your hands on them. Nobody can tell you which one will work for you.

Lens selection is a biggie. Canon definitely has a larger selection of lenses, and I really don't understand Nikon's entry level AF motor strategy. This is probably Nikon's biggest weakness IMO. The lenses they do make are made very well, but they really could stand to expand their lineup a bit.

As for the other things:

Depth of Field Control -- I'm not sure what you mean by this. The Lens and aperture selection have much more impact on DoF than does the camera body. Unless you're referring to the kit lenses.

12bit vs 14bit RAW files -- I've never had trouble getting a great picture because I lacked those extra two bits of color depth.

Weight -- Not really an issue, especially when you start adding more lenses and accessories to your kit.

Faster continuous shooting -- Are you going to be shooting a lot of sports/action shots. If not then this shouldn't be a factor in the decision.

Scene modes -- If you're ready to go in shooting manual then these will quickly be ignored. The only thing you might want them for is if you plan on sharing the camera with a friend or significant other who just wants to take some snapshots. If you're the only one using the camera, and your confident you won't want to fall back on them, then don't factor them in.

[dakwegmo]

Originally Posted by inkista

I think you may be in the "How does it feel in your hands?" stage. Play with them in a store and see which one you like then. Reading reviews online only gets you so far.

Exactly! Nikon and Canon both make great systems. I don't think you'll go wrong with either. However, all the reading in the world can't tell you how it feels in your hands.

[techmaster.mah]

Originally Posted by CourtJester

Hi all, first post here, been lurking for a while. So, I am in the market for my first dSLR and am very passionate about photography. I just want to upgrade beyond my Canon P&S (which has treated me very well). I have read a mind numbing amount of reviews recently comparing my 2 choices, the Canon Rebel T1i & Nikon D5000. Naturally, I am driving myself crazy like usual when I review products I'm interested in purchasing (due diligence to an absurd level if you will). My question isn't WHICH camera to choose, but rather what aspects of each matter the MOST to those who have been using dSLRs for a while.

What I like about the Canon over the Nikon:
-The LCD specs and I don't care for the swiveling screen of the Nikon
- Depth of field control
-14 bit RAW vs 12 bit
-All lenses can AF & possibilities seem greater to expand into better lenses (price)
-MUCH easier to change settings like ISO & aperture w/o going through menus
-Lighter in weight

What I like about the Nikon over the Canon:
-Faster continuous shooting
-Advanced scene modes (although I plan to shoot mostly in manual)

From those points alone it seems like I should just go with the Canon but my big problem is looking at comparison shots between the 2 models, I think I like Nikon's more (though I'm having trouble locating side by side RAW comparisons). Also, looking through Flickr shots using each camera, I like what people have done with the Nikon more as well, Canon & Nikon. Of course, BETTER photographers could be taking the Nikon shots as opposed to the Canon but who knows. If it helps at all, the main thing I like to shoot is landscapes, macro, & want to delve into the world of HDR. Excuse this extremely long post but I just want to lay it all out here for people who know what they are doing! Thanks in advance!

1st : U can also change primary settings in nikon without going through the menus
2nd : U gotta feel both f them n ur hands and feel which is better for u to handle.
3rd : See in ur area which company has better customer services.....cos here nikon has far more better service while for canon i have to send it to another state some 500 miles away.
4th : YA its sad that D5000 cant autofocus but wen u invest in lenses its kinda permanent .......i know people still who have their old f-mount manual focussing lenses that still rocks......

so its totally individualistic......its U, UR CAMERA , UR PHOTOGRAPHY

[CourtJester]

Thank you all very much, this has been tremendously helpful. So far what I gather is this:

-Get to a store and hold each camera, ergonomics is important
-Research lenses as well (I was planning on buying the body only anyway), but this is a big consideration
-The auto scene settings are somewhat important considering my fiancee will be using it sometimes to snap some shots, but this is certainly not a must have
-Sounds like the way Canons change ISO settings are the much preferred method, sans menu navigation

[CourtJester]

Originally Posted by techmaster.mah

1st : U can also change primary settings in nikon without going through the menus

Can you? Everything that I have read says you have to navigate menus to do this!

[inkista]

Originally Posted by CourtJester

-Get to a store and hold each camera, ergonomics is important
-Research lenses as well (I was planning on buying the body only anyway), but this is a big consideration

I'd actually put lenses before ergonomics, but that's my personal taste. I can deal with irritating user interface issues: I work on UNIX, OSX, and Windows in my professional life. My logic is that only two things "touch" the light: the sensor and the glass. Everything else is gravy.

-Sounds like the way Canons change ISO settings are the much preferred method, sans menu navigation

This is where the hands-on can help you. Also, from what I've read, Nikon's auto-ISO is more intelligently handled than on the Canon side (i.e., some models have an ability to set an upper bound to the iso), so you may need to change the ISO less frequently.

Ok, going back to your original post, here's how I rate the importance to me of each of your points on a scale of 1 (not an issue) to 10 (dealbreaker):

The LCD specs and I don't care for the swiveling screen of the Nikon
5. You work with the LCD all the time.

Depth of field control
If you mean the A-DEP mode, 0. DEP used to work just fine back on the film cameras, but Canon made A-DEP harder to use properly and it's very easy to get it wrong. I've never used it, but then, I don't do a lot of group shots. There's a reason A-DEP is not on the 1-series cameras. I prefer using a DoF preview button (which, sadly, the D5000 doesn't have) or doing hyperfocal distance the old-fashioned way.

14 bit RAW vs 12 bit
2. Yes, there's a difference, but not as much as you might think. Past a certain point, expanding the color space just gets you less and less.

All lenses can AF & possibilities seem greater to expand into better lenses (price)
8. But I'm mostly a prime shooter. If you plan to shoot primarily with zooms, this would be more like a 4. The majority of Nikon's zooms are AF-S, so they will autofocus. And if the two lenses spec out similarly, the costs are relatively close. Where you'll find cheaper lenses on the Canon side is when they offer a lower-speced alternative. Say, a 70-200 f/4 as well as a 70-200 f/2.8.

But that's new lenses. Nikon also has the ability to mount old manual-focus lenses directly onto the camera. You'll lose metering, autofocus, and the ability to shot in any modes but full manual and aperture-priority, but you have compatibility back to the '70s on used lenses. If you go up-tier, with a D80/D90, you'll get metering back. And if you go up to a D200/D300/D300s, you'll have the ability to set up some EXIF information for the lenses, too. And old manual focus lenses often go for bargain prices from those who upgraded their glass to autofocus.

Canon, otoh, can only directly mount EOS lenses from 1985 forwards. The old manual-focus FD/FL lenses will not work and cannot be adapted. With adapter rings, EOS can use manual focus lenses in the Nikon F, Pentax K, Contax-Yashica (Zeiss), Leica-R, Olympus OM, and M42 mounts, but you will lose autofocus and can only shoot in M and Av. You do, however, have stop-down metering capability. And, of course, your EXIF is munged. Still, small price to pay to mount cheap Zeiss and Leica lenses, imho.

MUCH easier to change settings like ISO & aperture w/o going through menus
3. As I said, I eventually just learn workarounds for UI irritations.

Lighter in weight
7. But I suffer from RSI. Most folks prefer a heavier camera.

Faster continuous shooting
2. I shot birds in flight with 3fps on my XT. I now shoot them with 6fps on my 50D, and that's about the only time I find having a higher frame rate helps, and there are times it's made me accidentally take frames I didn't want. If you can't decide your moment, a higher frame rate still isn't gonna snag it for you: you just get more shots of the wrong moment.

Advanced scene modes (although I plan to shoot mostly in manual)
0. I never use scene modes.

[dcclark]

Originally Posted by CourtJester

Can you? Everything that I have read says you have to navigate menus to do this!

Definitely not. Example: to set the aperture, click into A mode (dial on top) and use the command dial (front or back, depends on the model) to adjust. Same goes for shutter priority (S) and program (P) mode.

On even the lowest-end Nikons, you can set a command button to let you set ISO, White Balance, etc. directly. On prosumer and pro models, there are dedicated external controls.

I've had more trouble setting common settings on low-end Canons than on low-end Nikons, but that may just be because I prefer the arrangement of buttons and controls on Nikons.

[Doug Pardee]

Originally Posted by CourtJester

I'm having trouble locating side by side RAW comparisons

That's probably because Raw files aren't images. You'd have to compare the image files that resulted from converting the Raw files, and then you've got the question of what the conversion software did differently.

The closest you'll get is DxOMark's sensor ratings:
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Image-Quality-Database/Compare-cameras/(appareil1)/319|0/(appareil2)/320|0/(onglet)/0/(brand)/Canon/(brand2)/Nikon

According to DxOMark, the sensor in the D5000 is a little bit better than the sensor in the T1i (500D) in each of the major categories that they measure. Do check out the details, though (the tabs across the top of the box). There are interactive diagrams where you can see what the approximate differences are by running your cursor over the rainbow stripe on the right side.