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  1. #1
    WesFoster is offline Wes Foster
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    Question New Camera Advice?

    I'm thinking of getting a new film camera - I have an Ae-1, which is brilliant... but I want to get a better model which will last through tougher use, plus the Ae-1 was my dad's, so I really don't want to break it as a matter of conscience. I got my first digital a while back (650D) so I want to stick with Canon - because of the lenses and other equipment I want to stick with Canon, but cannot get an EOS film camera because of the EF mount - all my lenses/adapters are EF-S, and aren't backward compatible to EF mounts. Plus, I utterly love the weight and feel of the FD lenses.

    From what I've read, the New F-1 is one of the best going, and is very durable (and just about affordable). I use my film cameras like P & S, the Canon line are brilliant for just in pockets - whereas I don't like carrying my digital on show because of its size, and slightly for fear of being mugged or something (quite paranoid). Or I was looking at the T90, but that's meant to be similar size to a modern SLR - is there a great improvement there though?

    Or does anyone have any other recommends?

    Thanks
    Canon 650D (gripped); Canon EOS 10; Canon Ae-1; Canon 50mm 1.4 USM EF; Canon 18-55mm 3.5-5.6 EF-S; Canon 75-300mm 4-5.6; Canon 50mm 1.8mm FD; Canon 28mm 2.8 FD; Vivitar 4.5 80 - 200mm FD;Speedlite 199A; Yonguo YN560-III

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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by WesFoster View Post
    I'm thinking of getting a new film camera - I have an Ae-1, which is brilliant... but I want to get a better model which will last through tougher use
    You have a pretty unique question... What are you shooting? Many of today's film advocates are still looking for a particular look and not dealing with extreme conditions. Conversely, some of the easy choices for "tough" are digital compacts (that, or really really expensive DSLR's).

    ...I want to stick with Canon - because of the lenses and other equipment
    But none of what you're describing in the digital/film mix has any interchangeability. The only thing in common is the logo on the mirror housing...? I'm missing the cohesion in your situation and questions.

    I use my film cameras like P & S
    You may want to consider a P&S. Inkista and others have talked about this idea that a DSLR is NOT a bigger/better P&S. They're different tools. If you shoot like a P&S, you may find that there are many P&S choices that suit you fine and several that are very rugged.

    I think a key question is still: what are you shooting?
    Dave.
    It's not even about the pictures; it's about the memories and communication.

  3. #3
    WesFoster is offline Wes Foster
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    Thanks for replying

    What I meant about interchangeability is the FD lenses I already have from my Ae-1, I'd much rather get a better standard of film camera which can use all my FD lenses - instead of having to buy EF or other manufacturers lenses - plus I have an adapter ring for my 650D so that FD can be used on it.

    It would still be a walk around, daily use camera because it is smaller than my DSLR - I don't want it for shooting something specific, but I don't want to loose the amount of manual control you get with film or SLR cameras - which I would loose with a digital P & S for a similar price ( I think, or are there any with manual control that go for 200 - 300).

    I know it isn't a point and shoot substitute - I just mean that it is a daily use camera which is slightly smaller, but with no quality loss and full manual control. Plus, they full like they can take a bit more (because of no electronics) than my DSLR (because its lower range). With my 28mm lens on, my Ae-1 fits in my pocket. Which is much more useful for just walking around etc.

    I suppose if I had to pick an area, it would be photojournalism, or street photography. I find the black/white film brings out the contrast really nicely when my SLR may make the image look a bit flat, and it would need tweaking.

    Thanks for the help,

    Wes
    Canon 650D (gripped); Canon EOS 10; Canon Ae-1; Canon 50mm 1.4 USM EF; Canon 18-55mm 3.5-5.6 EF-S; Canon 75-300mm 4-5.6; Canon 50mm 1.8mm FD; Canon 28mm 2.8 FD; Vivitar 4.5 80 - 200mm FD;Speedlite 199A; Yonguo YN560-III

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  4. #4
    veritasimagery is offline I'm one of "those" people
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    Quote Originally Posted by WesFoster View Post
    What I meant about interchangeability is the FD lenses I already have from my Ae-1, I'd much rather get a better standard of film camera which can use all my FD lenses - instead of having to buy EF or other manufacturers lenses - plus I have an adapter ring for my 650D so that FD can be used on it.
    If you already have an adapter that lets you use the FD lenses on the EF mount than just about anything would work. But if you're looking at film cameras, why not the Canon EOS Elan 7E. It would give you all the same manual controls as the AE-1, but also ads in the "Program" setting like the A-1 and AE-1 Program. And it also has a body similar to your 650D. And I think you might find it easier to track one down than it might, say an F-1 (which would be the pro-level body of the same era as you AE-1). And also, the old Canon A-1 would be a direct upgrade from the AE-1 as well, and would still use all your FD lenses without the need of an adapter. The benefit of the Elan is that it would also be able to use any EF lenses you might have.

    Steves Digicams - Canon EOS ELAN 7/7E 35mm SLR - User Review
    Last edited by veritasimagery; 01-21-2013 at 08:41 PM.
    Kevin
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  5. #5
    WesFoster is offline Wes Foster
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    I'm a bit wary of buying an EF (EOS) camera because it would mean buying more adapters - I just found this on wiki -

    Canon designers have taken steps to ensure it is physically impossible to mount EF-S lenses on EF-only cameras. This is because the increased proximity of the lens to the sensor means that on full-frame sensor or 35mm film EF cameras the lens itself would obstruct the mirror's movement and cause damage to the lens and/or camera. While it is possible to modify the lens such that the physical obstruction is removed, allowing for mounting to EF mount cameras, the rear of the lens would still obstruct the mirror. An additional reason is that the lenses produce a smaller image circle of even illumination (circle of no vignetting). An EF-S lens alignment mark is indicated by a small white rectangle, whereas the EF employs a small red dot. The lens will insert into the body when the alignment marks on each are matched, and the lens can then be rotated and locked into the operating position. EF-S camera bodies have both EF-S and EF alignment marks, while EF bodies have only EF marks. Some have reported success attaching EF-S lenses to full-frame bodies with the use of an extension tube; however, this does not eliminate the vignetting problem, and also removes the lens's ability to achieve infinity focus.[2] Also, attachment of EF-S lenses on EF bodies can often be accomplished by removing the small plastic ring seen in the photo above. Although vignetting is still an issue, photos can be taken, and infinity focus achieved. This modification comes with caveats, one being that on some lenses, like the EF-S 10-22mm, at the 10mm setting, the element protrudes too far back toward EF mount camera bodies.

    Which is why I've been looking at the FD mounted film cameras (as lovely as the Elan looks)

    The A-1 sounds pretty nice, but would it be a noticeable improvement on my Ae-1?

    Cheers
    Canon 650D (gripped); Canon EOS 10; Canon Ae-1; Canon 50mm 1.4 USM EF; Canon 18-55mm 3.5-5.6 EF-S; Canon 75-300mm 4-5.6; Canon 50mm 1.8mm FD; Canon 28mm 2.8 FD; Vivitar 4.5 80 - 200mm FD;Speedlite 199A; Yonguo YN560-III

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  6. #6
    veritasimagery is offline I'm one of "those" people
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    The A-1 would be the era correct upgrade for your AE-1. It has full manual plus AE programing. It sat in-between the AE-1 and F-1. It's a great camera. Basically you could look at the AE-1 as comparable to your 650D (consumer/hobbiest) with the A-1 being the 60D or 7D (pro-sumer) and then the F-1 sits in the pro-realm like the 5 and 1 series Canon DSLRs.

    Another possibility to look at would be the Canon T-series film cameras (like the T-80), they still have the FD mount, but also have the electronics for AF.

    Canon T80 (1985): Steve H: Galleries: Digital Photography Review
    Kevin
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  7. #7
    veritasimagery is offline I'm one of "those" people
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    Quote Originally Posted by WesFoster View Post
    The A-1 sounds pretty nice, but would it be a noticeable improvement on my Ae-1?
    Wes -

    The thing you have to remember about the old film days is that Image Quality was based more upon the lenses and the film being used. There were no sensors that determined the IQ. The shutter opened and the light directly hit the film. The biggest differences in "classes" of cameras was how strong they were built. The consumer grade bodies were made of less expensive materials, whereas the pro-bodies were built like tanks. But in reality, whether they we consumer or pro, they all functioned the same.

    So, to answer the question, will you see any noticeable improvement in IQ with the A-1? No. If you are using the same lenses and the same film, the IQ will be the same. The biggest differences will be in functionality and durability.
    Kevin
    Canon EOS 60D, Canon EOS T3i, Canon A-1, Canon AE-1 Program, Various lenses
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  8. #8
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    bhursey is offline The Geeky Photgrapher
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    Quote Originally Posted by veritasimagery View Post
    Wes -

    The thing you have to remember about the old film days is that Image Quality was based more upon the lenses and the film being used. There were no sensors that determined the IQ. The shutter opened and the light directly hit the film. The biggest differences in "classes" of cameras was how strong they were built. The consumer grade bodies were made of less expensive materials, whereas the pro-bodies were built like tanks. But in reality, whether they we consumer or pro, they all functioned the same.

    So, to answer the question, will you see any noticeable improvement in IQ with the A-1? No. If you are using the same lenses and the same film, the IQ will be the same. The biggest differences will be in functionality and durability.
    Exactly if your using the same film and the same lenses you wont notice a difference. The A-1 is a very nice body. My shutter died last year on mine. Make sure if buying one watch out for the canon cough.. I would recommend going ahead and investing in EOS lenses and get like an elan body. That way you can just cary over to digital.. I know its a totally different brand and mount but if you looking for a awesome film body look into the Nikon fm2n you can get a 50mm f1.8 with it decent. Its full manual but I absolutely love it. I actually like it better than my canon A-1

    Nikon FM2 without Motor drive.
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  9. #9
    WesFoster is offline Wes Foster
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    Yeah its not improved image quality I'm after, the photos I've got from the Ae-1 are utterly superb and I think better my 650D most of the time.

    The main reason I want a new film camera is that I want o give this one back to my dad; I couldn't live myself if it broke, or I broke it.

    Which is why I want to upgrade it as I change, I don't want to waste money on a camera now, then want another in a year or so - especially when I'm going to be buying a 'classic' anyway which is timeless, do you know what I mean? I'd rather upgrade now, than buy one now and another later.

    Better functions would be very nice, but its mainly build quality. the Ae-1 feels nice, but I want something a bit more solid, and the same size (which sort of puts the T-90 out).

    That Nikon looks lovely, will have to try and hunt for one near me to try it out.
    Canon 650D (gripped); Canon EOS 10; Canon Ae-1; Canon 50mm 1.4 USM EF; Canon 18-55mm 3.5-5.6 EF-S; Canon 75-300mm 4-5.6; Canon 50mm 1.8mm FD; Canon 28mm 2.8 FD; Vivitar 4.5 80 - 200mm FD;Speedlite 199A; Yonguo YN560-III

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  10. #10
    veritasimagery is offline I'm one of "those" people
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    Quote Originally Posted by WesFoster View Post
    Better functions would be very nice, but its mainly build quality. the Ae-1 feels nice, but I want something a bit more solid, and the same size (which sort of puts the T-90 out).
    Well, the A-1 is the same size as the AE-1, just a little better built. And I have seen several of those for sale. There's one in my area of the States that is selling for $100 USD, and it has two lenses, flash and speed winder. So you should be able to dig one up.
    Kevin
    Canon EOS 60D, Canon EOS T3i, Canon A-1, Canon AE-1 Program, Various lenses
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