Should I buy a Powershot G12?

[marcelo_valente]

Hi, I would like an opinion from our friends here at dps. I currently own a Canon EOS XS (1000D) and usually have a 18-200mm lens attached and carry in my bag the 50mm, charger another battery and cards and small things.
It is a pretty heavy load to carry around sometimes, so I'm trying to figure out a new smaller camera to buy and take to places where a smaller equipment is better, does not draw so much attention.
I saw in the pole results here at dps that the G12 is high on the list of second camera options.
Should I get it then? Any other suggestions? Will this be a good purchase or should I just take my XS around with me anyway?

Thank you all for the help


Marcelo

[inkista]

For me it all depends on three things:

1. What kind of price you can get the G12 for (because if you're looking at $500, then a mirroless compact might be worth investigating; $300, and it's more worth it).

2. How picky you are about image quality. While the G12 is good, small sensors look like they're starting to get phased out for "serious" compacts. There was no G13 announcement last year. Instead, this year, we got the GX1, which is $800, but has a sensor in it larger than micro 4/3, and just a fraction smaller than APS-C.

3. How compact you have to go. While the G12 didn't get upgraded, the S95 did. The S100 offers all the serious PSAM / RAW goodies you probably want as a dSLR user, but in a much smaller package. If you're going to shed the lenses and the accessories, do you really need/want a cable release port? A built-in ND filter? A vari-angle screen? etc. etc. Or do you just want something you can slip into a shirt pocket and go? the G12 is still relatively chunky and big for a P&S camera. How light did you want to go? What functions are you willing to trade for small size?

And. The S95, being last year's model, is considerably less money. Shares the sensor and processor with the G12, so the image quality is probably the same. And the S90/95/100 use a different (shorter) lens, with a max aperture of f/2, not f/2.8.

In addition, there are two other models you might want to contemplate if you want to do available light shooting. The Olympus ZX-1 has a max. aperture of f/1.8, not f/2.8. And the Panasonic LX-5, which also does f/2.

[marcelo_valente]

Hi Inkista, thank you for your reply. I've been looking at the specs for the S100 and it does look very good. I was thinking that the hot shoe on the G12 was really something good because I'm planning to buy a small flash (the 270ex ii) so that I can use on both cameras. But the S100 is much smaller, so maybe I should do as you suggest and really ditch it all and go really small when not using my dslr. I still read some very very good comments about the G12 and it's image quality and feel/grip. So, still in doubt.
The G12 is going for almost 400 dollars on amazon, so the S100 is more expensive, but just a little bit.
I looked at the Lumix DMC-LX5 and it also has a hot shoe, but it got me wondering if it supports the 270ex ii. So, still undecided.
Any other thoughts?

Thank you once again.

[cyber3d]

I have one concern with the G12 (which I have) and that it's zoom is only 5x (28-140mm I believe). It depends on what sort of shooting you do with it. It can be a limitation.

[inkista]

Ah. Yes. The flash hotshoe. If that's non-negotiable, then get the G12. The Lumix probably won't work as well with a Canon flash although it might sync, but the 270EX (iirc, has no way of manually setting the power but through the camera menus, and if the camera doesn't speak the Canon flash protocol....), you'll likely be limited to full-power bursts. I do still use my G9 on occasion for off-camera flash shooting because of the flash hotshoe.

I am also insane. I sometimes use my S90 for off-camera flash as well, because I own a Yongnuo YN-560. The YN-560 has two built-in optical slave modes. If my S90 is in M, I use S1, and if my S90 is in Av/Tv/P, I use S2. The pop-up flash on the S90 can then trigger the YN-560. I dial the flash power down on the S90, and tend to cover/redirect the light to the YN-560's sensor.

I also use the no-longer-available Yongnuo RF-602TX (transmitter) with an optical slave stuck in its PC port (the newer RF-602 sets have a RF-600TX, where they removed this port), and then just gaffer tape that over the pop-up flash if I want radio off-camera flash.

Like I said. Insane.

[marcelo_valente]

Think the S100 can trigger those flashes? I was looking at the 430ex but I though it was huge!!! But if the S100 can trigger it as a slave, or the Yongnuo YN-560 then...I might go with the S100.

[inkista]

Originally Posted by marcelo_valente

Think the S100 can trigger those flashes?

My guess would be it would work the same as my S90, but if I could try it out before buying, I would. P&S camera's built-in flashes are rarely described in any reviews, and Canon has been known to change things about (even on the G series).

I was looking at the 430ex but I though it was huge!!!

Grin. It's all relative. To me, a 430EX is quite tiny and underpowered. The YN-560, btw, is roughly the same size/shape as a 580EX, and will dwarf a 430EX.

But if the S100 can trigger it as a slave, ...

Ah. The S100 cannot trigger a 430EX without using additional equipment (like my Rube Goldberg set up of built-in flash-> optical slave -> radio transmitter). The 430EX's "slave" mode is completely different. It uses the Canon proprietary wireless flash system, which is more like communicating with morse-code like light flashes. To use this system, you'd need an on-camera master unit, like a 580EX II, an ST-E2, or the pop-up flash of the 7D/60D/600D. So, the S100 can't do this.

The YN-560 uses a "dumb" optical slave: all it does is "see flash; fire flash". The S1 mode means that it will fire on the first flash burst it sees. The S2 mode means that it will fire on the second flash burst it sees. The S2 mode is important, because some cameras use a "preflash" to automatically set the flash power. The camera tells the flash to send out a "preflash" burst of a known brightness, meters it, and then adjusts the flash power to where the camera thinks it ought to be for good exposure. The S90 apparently sends out a pre-flash burst when the camera's in the Av/Tv/P modes, but does not when it is in M.

The other thing is that these both types of optical slave modes (eTTL and "dumb") are limited by range and "line of sight". The triggering light signal has to be "seen" by the sensor on the flash. That means it has to have a clear line of sight: you can't tuck the flash behind a door, and the flash can't be behind the camera's pop-up flash. This limits you on flash placement. And these systems work best indoors. Outside, bright sunlight can overpower the triggering burst, and the farther away the flash gets from the source flash, the less reliability you have.

This is why radio triggers are so desirable: they're not limited by line of sight, and the reliability over a larger distance is much higher. In addition (if you're using "dumb" slaves), your flashes won't be set off by any random stranger walking by using a flash.

While you can do off-camera flash with a camera that doesn't have a hotshoe, it's not ideal, and it's not as flexible. I don't have to go through the Rube Goldberg set up with my G9, I just put the RF-602TX onto the G9's hotshoe directly.

Yeah. I spend waaaay too much time reading the Strobist.

[ccting]

No worry about hotshoe stuff. I am using Kodak CX7530 without hotshoe, just turn on the optical sensor on for your flashgun.. and shot ;D.

I can't even control the focus, shutter speed and aperture... but it proposes greater ease of use when you are travelling

The below unprocessed pic (original pic 1.7MB size image that has been reduced the size )is shot by using this very old point and shot camera..one holding the camera, one holding YN560. I used tissue to cover the built-in camera flash but thin enough to trigger YN560. In other words, I would buy a smallest, cheapest with least control so that anyone knows how to use it well (if you have another DSLR). You can keep it in your pocket, and you don't even bother whether you drop it or not.. For your info, i need to hug my baby while taking my shot..

If you buy a big size camera, then i think it will not serve you any purpose.. why not just buy a dslr?

Another factor that i consider is the battery. If it uses only normal AA battery then it will be very nice, otherwise, this will worry you a lot.