What’s Your Preference?

mystik610 · #1 (**permalink**) 12-29-2011, 11:50 AM

First post here, but have been lurking for a while.

I've been shooting on a DSLR for almost 2 years now on a T2i....shot 'photographically' on a G9 for a few years prior to that too.

Looking to pick up a new body sometime in the next couple of weeks, and am debating either the 7D or the 5D. I shoot mostly portraits....usually 1-3 people max. I shoot with a 580ex ii speed light, but often use a very subtle bounce flash and rely on relatively high ISO's (usually 800-1600 indoors).

Current lenses include:

Canon 24-70L
Canon 50mm 1.4
Tamron 17-50 non-vc
Tamron 17-50 vc
Tamron 18-270 PZD

The Tamron lenses will be sold to finance my new body.

Two primary reasons for wanting to upgrade are for better low light performance, and a better autofocus system, and generally, better IQ. These are the two areas I feel the T2i is holding me back. Better IQ is the ultimate goal.

The obvious answer for low light performance and better IQ are the full-frame, but I am enticed by the autofocus system and electronics in the 7D. I've missed quite a few shots because of the slow, inaccurate autofocus system in the T2i. I find myself borrowing my dad's 60d when going on shoots (which I do is a mini side business), as I find the cross-type autofocus points really are more reliable. I don't use the center autofocus point too often. This is definitely more of an issue on the Tamron lenses though.

I know the autofocus system in the 5DII is less than spectacular, but is it any better than the T2i? For portrait photography, is the increased IQ and low light performance more worthwhile than the autofocus system and electronics in the 7D?

I wouldn't say that money isn't the issue, but I'm willing to pay the premium for the 5D MKII, if its justifiable.

taschrief · #2 (**permalink**) 12-29-2011, 01:46 PM

I can't speak to the AF issues with either camera. I've never used either one of them.

I can, however, comment on the 'low-light' issue. I have used three Canon DLSRs: XSi, T1i, and the 60D. It seems to me that the low light image quality issue is also a bit tricky. You mention low-light performance with a flash. That seems to be a misnomer. What you are really getting at is IQ at 1600. The XSi only went to ISO 1600 and it was NOT a whole stop worse than the T1i. The T1i goes to (obscene) 12,800 as does the 60D. There is some improvement in IQ from the T1i to the 60D, again not even one entire stop. I would venture to say it was probably only 1 stop difference between the XSi and the 60D.

Now to your issue. I am GUESSING here, never used a 5D2, that you would NOT see much more than 1 stop ISO noise performance by going to a 5D2, 2 stops at the very best. However, you can get a 4 stop noise performance improvement by dropping the ISO from 1600 to 100.

If you want a 5D2, and can afford one, by all means get one. I would love to have one. If you are primarily concerned with IQ, try shooting your T2i at ISO 100. It costs nothing to try it.

autofocus · #3 (**permalink**) 12-29-2011, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mystik610

First post here, but have been lurking for a while.

I've been shooting on a DSLR for almost 2 years now on a T2i....shot 'photographically' on a G9 for a few years prior to that too.

Looking to pick up a new body sometime in the next couple of weeks, and am debating either the 7D or the 5D. I shoot mostly portraits....usually 1-3 people max. I shoot with a 580ex ii speed light, but often use a very subtle bounce flash and rely on relatively high ISO's (usually 800-1600 indoors).

Current lenses include:

Canon 24-70L
Canon 50mm 1.4
Tamron 17-50 non-vc
Tamron 17-50 vc
Tamron 18-270 PZD

The Tamron lenses will be sold to finance my new body.

Two primary reasons for wanting to upgrade are for better low light performance, and a better autofocus system, and generally, better IQ. These are the two areas I feel the T2i is holding me back. Better IQ is the ultimate goal.

The obvious answer for low light performance and better IQ are the full-frame, but I am enticed by the autofocus system and electronics in the 7D. I've missed quite a few shots because of the slow, inaccurate autofocus system in the T2i. I find myself borrowing my dad's 60d when going on shoots (which I do is a mini side business), as I find the cross-type autofocus points really are more reliable. I don't use the center autofocus point too often. This is definitely more of an issue on the Tamron lenses though.

I know the autofocus system in the 5DII is less than spectacular, but is it any better than the T2i? For portrait photography, is the increased IQ and low light performance more worthwhile than the autofocus system and electronics in the 7D?

I wouldn't say that money isn't the issue, but I'm willing to pay the premium for the 5D MKII, if its justifiable.

I'm interested in following this thread as I too, have been wrestling with this same question. Knowing that my faithful and venerable 20D will eventually need to be retired, the 5DII and the 7D will be my obvious replacement options. Honestly, from what I have gathered so far, I think I'm liking the 7D over the 5D. But, by the time I'm really ready to make a purchase decision Canon will probably come out with an 8D to only further confuse my buy decision.

mystik610 · #4 (**permalink**) 12-29-2011, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taschrief

I can't speak to the AF issues with either camera. I've never used either one of them.

I can, however, comment on the 'low-light' issue. I have used three Canon DLSRs: XSi, T1i, and the 60D. It seems to me that the low light image quality issue is also a bit tricky. You mention low-light performance with a flash. That seems to be a misnomer. What you are really getting at is IQ at 1600. The XSi only went to ISO 1600 and it was NOT a whole stop worse than the T1i. The T1i goes to (obscene) 12,800 as does the 60D. There is some improvement in IQ from the T1i to the 60D, again not even one entire stop. I would venture to say it was probably only 1 stop difference between the XSi and the 60D.

Now to your issue. I am GUESSING here, never used a 5D2, that you would NOT see much more than 1 stop ISO noise performance by going to a 5D2, 2 stops at the very best. However, you can get a 4 stop noise performance improvement by dropping the ISO from 1600 to 100.

If you want a 5D2, and can afford one, by all means get one. I would love to have one. If you are primarily concerned with IQ, try shooting your T2i at ISO 100. It costs nothing to try it.

Thanks for the reply.

When shooting indoors, I'm usually bouncing my flash either behind me or off a side-wall....which in most cases, with an EV of 0 or +1, dictates an ISO of 800.

At 800, I'm getting a little bit of ISO noise...nothing terrible, but noticeable. I prefer not to use ISO 1600. Its acceptable, but not preferable.

I like to complement the available light with just a touch of flash to control the shadows along the face of my subject(s). The obvious answer to is to push up the EV on my speedlight and use a lower ISO, however, this creates a flash that overwhelms the available light in the room.....it also drains my batteries, and increases my cycle time. I admit that I'm still working on improving my flash technique.

ceremus · #5 (**permalink**) 12-29-2011, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by autofocus

I'm interested in following this thread as I too, have been wrestling with this same question. Knowing that my faithful and venerable 20D will eventually need to be retired, the 5DII and the 7D will be my obvious replacement options. Honestly, from what I have gathered so far, I think I'm liking the 7D over the 5D. But, by the time I'm really ready to make a purchase decision Canon will probably come out with an 8D to only further confuse my buy decision.

More likely we'll see some sort of refresh of the 5D before then, and most people are hoping that it will come along with the AF points and viewfinder of the 7D that's basically a generational leap ahead of the typical 9 point AF system that Canon has been using for so long.
19 cross points with predictive / zoning focusss

mystik610 · #6 (**permalink**) 12-29-2011, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceremus

More likely we'll see some sort of refresh of the 5D before then, and most people are hoping that it will come along with the AF points and viewfinder of the 7D that's basically a generational leap ahead of the typical 9 point AF system that Canon has been using for so long.
19 cross points with predictive / zoning focusss

How much better is the AF system in the 5D than the system utilized in the rebels? I'm less than impressed with the T2i's autofocus system. Works fine shooting stills in good light...otherwise, the T2i's system is rather lacking.

Syracuse Photography · #7 (**permalink**) 12-29-2011, 08:51 PM

I did a comparison and here are the results.

Test

ceremus · #8 (**permalink**) 12-29-2011, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mystik610

How much better is the AF system in the 5D than the system utilized in the rebels? I'm less than impressed with the T2i's autofocus system. Works fine shooting stills in good light...otherwise, the T2i's system is rather lacking.

I haven't used the 5D so I can't speak from experience, but from the specs I would expect it to be at least marginally better than the Rebel series, but not astonishingly so.

Quote:

This system uses 9 AF points including a cross type point (sensitive to both horizontal and vertical lines) in the center (only) that is about twice as sensitive as the other focus points. Six not-individually-selectable assist focus points are present around the center point.

I'm assuming the six assist points are helpful for tracking in AI Servo and such. You're still basically dealing with 9 selectable AF points, only the center one being a cross. Compare that to a 7D with it's full 19 cross points, hooked up to a dynamic LCD overlay in the viewfinder. I was so blown away when I looked through that viewfinder compared to my T3i.

edit: