Help me think this through - lens or new camera body or both???

[Lisa_Mc]

HI all,
I've enjoyed the forums here for quite sometime however I decided to register so I could ask this question.

I currently have a Rebel XTi, kit lenses (18-55 & 70-300) and the 50mm 1.8.

I'm a novice but have taught myself how to shoot in manual (still learning and improving though). The problem I'm having at the moment and what I hope you can help me think through is:

I shoot a lot of sports phots of my daughter (soccer & softball) and possibly volleyball if she decides to pursue it.

My current 70-300mm lens is pretty crappy in terms of getting the speed I need, unless the game is early and the light is sufficient.

When the light isn't the greatest I have to raise my ISO that only goes to 1600 and is noisy beyond 400. I still can't get sharp pictures. I'm using a monopod.

I know I need a faster lens and I really want the Canon 70-200mm 2.8 (IS is too expensive) so it would just be the non-IS lens.

So I guess what I'm asking is:
1. Is it unreasonable of me to think that if I put the Canon 70-200mm on my XTi that I'll get sharp pics?
2. Should I also get a new body? I've been looking at either the 60d or the 7d. I'm leaning toward the 7d for the faster frames per second rate but also imtimidated by the learning curve I keep hearing about. Video is a non-issue but I might use it here and there if I had it.

One day I think all I need is a new lens and then the next I think I need both. I can only afford one or the other at the moment.

I'm a hobbyist only. Absolutely no aspiration to do this professionally.

Help please!!! Thanks!

[inkista]

Ok, first step: make sure that it's not technique that's getting you fuzzy pictures. The EF 70-300 IS USM is a fairly good mid-range lens, and the IS means you probably shouldn't need a monopod. But it is relatively soft at the long end, compared to pro $1500+ L lenses.

So, just to double-check: are we talking about the EF 70-300 IS USM ($500-$600)? Or are we talking about the $125-$250 EF 75-300 III?

Secondly, are you sure you're using shutter speeds of 1/focal_length or higher? Are you stopping down to at least f/8? And are you turning IS off when you've got the lens on a monopod?

Technique follows you to a new lens.

No, you are not unreasonable in assuming a better lens will help you take better pictures, but you might be unreasonable in assuming a better lens will guarantee it. I have a 400/5.6L. I can still screw up royally with it:



As much as I can get decent shots with it:



A new body might help, but imo, it's unlikely to help as much as a better L-grade USM lens will. You may want to try renting a 70-200 f/2.8L to see if it's a good fit. Also, possibly an EF 300mm f/4L IS USM.

I would say, however, that increasing the ISO to 800 or 1600 shouldn't be a huge problem if you have good noise-reduction software, and are not underexposing. Just my opinion. I'm more tolerant of noise than most digital-only shooters are, and I rarely spend time staring at my images at 100% crop.

[ceremus]

The 70-200mm f/4 (either IS or not) are very sharp lenses with great image quality, although at 200mm the difference in sharpness between it and the 70-300 isn't spectacular. Plus at the maximum apertures it'll only give you about a 2/3rd stop advantage, so if you don't have enough light and you're getting underexposures your images may still not look very sharp.

Have you considered a fast telephoto prime like the 100mm f/2 or 135mm f/2 L?

A newer body like a 60D, 7D, or even a newer Rebel like the T2i/T3i will give you a little more working room in ISO sensitivity and acceptable noise levels. My sister shoots with the XSI/450D (yours is the 400D) and she's envious of the noise performance of my T3i.

[gturner]

How are you setting up your shots? In auto modes or full manual?

You may find that the camera is being duped into slowing the shutter to exposure dark areas behind the players.
Post some samples with Exif and we would be able to tell fairly quickly.

Xti at higher ISO is not great, but at 800 you should be ok.

[RichardTaylor]

+1 inkista's suggestion.

With good technique you will get sharp pics with a Canon 70-200 (I own one).

Re your existing set up.
Are you shooting RAW, using noise reduction software and sharpening when PPing?

I own the The EF 70-300 IS USM (amongst other lenses) and it is an OK lens.

[Lisa_Mc]

My answers to your questions are in red.

Originally Posted by inkista

Ok, first step: make sure that it's not technique that's getting you fuzzy pictures. The EF 70-300 IS USM is a fairly good mid-range lens, and the IS means you probably shouldn't need a monopod. But it is relatively soft at the long end, compared to pro $1500+ L lenses.

So, just to double-check: are we talking about the EF 70-300 IS USM ($500-$600)? Or are we talking about the $125-$250 EF 75-300 III? I have the non-IS 70-300mm lens.

Secondly, are you sure you're using shutter speeds of 1/focal_length or higher? Are you stopping down to at least f/8? And are you turning IS off when you've got the lens on a monopod? For the soccer shots I have been putting it in Tv mode, set to 1/500. Not sure of my aperture, whatever the camera chooses after I set the SS. Agaiin, no IS.

Technique follows you to a new lens.

No, you are not unreasonable in assuming a better lens will help you take better pictures, but you might be unreasonable in assuming a better lens will guarantee it. I have a 400/5.6L. I can still screw up royally with it:



As much as I can get decent shots with it:



A new body might help, but imo, it's unlikely to help as much as a better L-grade USM lens will. You may want to try renting a 70-200 f/2.8L to see if it's a good fit. Also, possibly an EF 300mm f/4L IS USM. Yes, I've heard that a good lens on an ok camera will show improvement in the photos. I just wondered that since my highest ISO is only 1600 if that would hurt me.

I would say, however, that increasing the ISO to 800 or 1600 shouldn't be a huge problem if you have good noise-reduction software, and are not underexposing. Just my opinion. I'm more tolerant of noise than most digital-only shooters are, and I rarely spend time staring at my images at 100% crop.

Good point.

Thanks so much for your reply. It helps a lot.

[Lisa_Mc]

My comments are in red.

Originally Posted by ceremus

The 70-200mm f/4 (either IS or not) are very sharp lenses with great image quality, although at 200mm the difference in sharpness between it and the 70-300 isn't spectacular. Plus at the maximum apertures it'll only give you about a 2/3rd stop advantage, so if you don't have enough light and you're getting underexposures your images may still not look very sharp. I'm confused. Are you suggesting the 70-200mm f/4 as an alternate to the 2.8 or referring to it as the one I have? I have the 70-300mm. I really want a 2.8 lens. I figure if I'm gonna spend the money I'm going for as much aperture as I can get.

Have you considered a fast telephoto prime like the 100mm f/2 or 135mm f/2 L? I have thought about the 200mm prime as most of my pics are shot at the 300mm focal distance but I want the ability to zoom out too in case I use it for indoor use.

A newer body like a 60D, 7D, or even a newer Rebel like the T2i/T3i will give you a little more working room in ISO sensitivity and acceptable noise levels. My sister shoots with the XSI/450D (yours is the 400D) and she's envious of the noise performance of my T3i.

Thanks for you comments!

[Lisa_Mc]

Gturner and richardtaylor. Thank you!

I do shoot in RAW. I reduce noise in ACR. I don't have noise reduction software. I don't sharpen because I haven't had a good enough pic to do that on yet.

For the sports shots I've been shooting in Tv mode. Easier to maintain shutter speed that way. For pics of non-moving subjects I shoot in full manual but that's another story

I'll post a pic tonight. I'm replying on my iPhone right now.

[Lisa_Mc]

Ok, I'm going to try and add a pic.
[IMG][/IMG]

EXIF
Shutter Speed 1/500
Aperture f/6.3
ISO 800
Lens EF 70-300mm
Focal Length 300mm
No flash
Tv mode

This was an early morning game but the skies were cloudy. I used my monopod.

I didn't save my psd file but I only did very basic editing in ACR and PSE. No sharpening at all on this one.

Please don't laugh at my abilities

Is there an easier way to post EXIF data? I typed it, going back and forth from Flickr to here.

Thanks for your input.

[RichardTaylor]

With the Exif data you can copy it from Flickr and paste it here.

=======================

With this pic you have definately caught the moment (it is a bit tight composition wise) however it appears the focus is a bit off with the grass in the background being sharper than the player.

What focus mode are you using?
For action I use AI servo (focus tracking on) and centre point only active (and over the subject). Give your camera/lens time to "lock on" by aquiring the subject early with the shutter button partially depressed (whilst on the subject) or using back button focussing.
Hope this helps.