Canon's lineup change... Perspectives?

[Deleted]

I've been shooting with a 50D and I have just started to get the 'ol error 30 message here and there. Ok, time for a repair or an upgrade. I've been keeping up with Canon's lineup but because of the upgrade I really looked into it. Here's where I'm starting to have issues figuring out why people are raving about the new features.

The 60D has video built in. Well, for me that's really not a big deal. To be more specific I'd call it pointless for me as I'm there to take photos not video, but again that's just me... and every other photographer I know around here. The frame grab is of such low res that I wouldn't dream of printing it, but the use of high speed on the 7D looks interesting to play with.

The 60D takes SD cards. That's a big drawback for me. Not because I have allot of UDMA CF cards but that the speed of USB vs Firewire for dumping data is much slower. Sure someone could say that USB 3.0 is out (or the use of Thunderbolt for Mac) but then there's the eSATA and everything else that gets thrown into the mix so to keep it simple; Firewire > USB currently.

The 60D looks like a revamped T2i from what I can see. To me it looks like Canon had redesigned the xxD line to a more hobbyist level then it was before. The natural upgrade path seems to be from the 50D to the 7D rather then the 60D as one would expect from what I can see. I mean, with my current understanding I would look twice at anyone using a 60D for paid work whereas with a 50D it would have been normal to see either as a main or backup body. Sure I have had amazing prints come out of a point and shoot, it is just a tool after all, but it's not equipment I'd expect to see.

Why is everyone raving about the whole flash master in the 60D and 7D bodies? Maybe it's because I use pocket wizards and have no use for line of sight triggering that I don't see the point. Now if it was a radio controlled flash master built into the body that would be a whole new thing. I've never used it on my 580 EXII's, and with my kit there's no line of sight anyway, but I just don't understand what the big deal is.

It sucks that you can't change the screen on the 7D. I rather like the EF-D screen on my 50D but whatever. I'm not really seeing the 7D as a huge upgrade to the 50D (I shoot centre point and use one shot mode most of the time) but it is an upgrade. The 60D, not so much of an upgrade but rather a downgrade for my usage. I'd buy the 5D MkII but as soon as I do the 5D MkIII/3D/whatever will come out and that's my ultimate goal with the 7D as backup. I shoot studio, strobist, and sports (never needed more then 3 shot bursts) so I should benefit from the extra control of full frame. Mmm... full frame... but anyway...

Well that's how I'm seeing it. I wouldn't call myself 'pro' or anything, I just have no use for these new features and don't understand the hype over them. Anyone care to lend me your perspective so I can see a different viewpoint and perhaps understand Canon's mindset a bit more?

[dlambert]

I'd view their lineup about the same. My personal view is that they've been broadening the lineup to include more "slots" for camera lines than they had in the past. (similar post here)

[MrJones]

I was with the same 5D dilemma just two weeks ago.
I finally decided to but the MK II and get it over with, mainly because the MK III is suppose to be out around october - december (and we had the same rumors last year as well).
if you need a camera, go get it.
there will always be another model just around the corner.

[inkista]

The Canon mindset is: we have to keep the 7D as a desirable product, but we still have to offer an affordable upgrade option for dRebel users with more than the entry-level set of features, but still less than the 7D offers. They're basically making more room for the 7D tier by lowering specs (AND PRICE) on the XXD.

Nobody ever seems to notice in all this that the 60D was intro'ed at a price $200 lower than the 50D was. ($1100 vs. $1300). This widening of the gap more clearly delineates the two tiers. The 50D came out when there was no 7D up there, so it was sitting in the rather large gap between the 1D and the dRebels all on its lonesome (as crops go). Hence the higher-level feature set.

Originally Posted by Deleted

The 60D has video built in. Well, for me that's really not a big deal.

Yes, but for other people, it's a HUGE one. Understand, the HD "video" on dSLRS isn't like camcorder video. It's like digital motion film. For student filmmakers, they've suddenly got a tool that's affordable for them, with a lens selection that surpasses what they had access to with 35mm film that's about an order of magnitude cheaper. The equipment isn't ideal for them, yet, since the lenses are still designed for still images, but it's an entire industry that's suddenly found another use for these cameras. It's a huge market for Canon, and one in which the 5D Mark II has given them a huge foothold. The more cameras they put this feature in, the more folks they can draw.

For a student filmmaker, the fact that HD video is now a standard feature on dSLRs is a godsend.

This is also why the flip-out LCD is in there. Hard to compose video of yourself without being able to see what you're doing. Sure, it's great for the macro and overhead shooting, too, but it's mostly for the video.

The 60D takes SD cards...

Again, to ease the transition of dRebel users to a higher-tier camera. More dRebel equipment can be used on the 60D than on the 50D. I found it a serious PITA to have to rebuy my cable release, and to no longer have use of my RC-1 infrared remote. The weird thing to me in all this is the discontinuation of the RC-1 (the handiest thumb-sized remote that lives on your camera strap). Exceedingly useful for video start/stop setup on the 5D Mark II. The 5Dii and 7D were the first of the "upper tier" bodies to have the IR sensor built in. It was very weird that that feature was only on the dRebels.

The 60D looks like a revamped T2i from what I can see.

Then you haven't looked hard enough at a T2i. No rear wheel. No quick controller. No top LCD, no quick access buttons on the top. The 60D still has enough of the XXD dual-wheel control layout to be a sizable UI upgrade from a dRebel, imnsho.

To me it looks like Canon had redesigned the xxD line to a more hobbyist level then it was before.

The XXD was always a "prosumer" camera, and was always one step up from a dRebel. It remains that today. But yes, the XXDs have been "downtiered" and made less expensive.

Why is everyone raving about the whole flash master in the 60D and 7D bodies?

Because some folks shoot in studios or run'n'gun and like having eTTL and high-speed sync when they do off-camera flash? They also don't like HAVING to buy triggers/additional speedlights if they just want to try Strobist stuff at home with that new 430EX II they just bought? And also, because Nikon's had this feature in its cams for quite a long time and usually crow about it over Canon shooters.

It sucks that you can't change the screen on the 7D.

Such is the price you pay for having grids you can turn on and off. It's the LCD overlay that did it. You can't expect that to be swappable.

I'm not really seeing the 7D as a huge upgrade to the 50D

Well, then there's always the 1D Mark IV.

I understand what you mean, though, about how features that don't appeal to you pretty much mean nothing. If it doesn't seem like what you want, don't buy it. Vote with your dollars. But don't expect that what you want is going to come along. Watch. When a 5d Mark III is released, there'll be people who hate its guts for not being what they wanted, either. I'm dying to see if the 5D finally gets a pop-up flash at all, what with the flash master craze ...

[Deleted]

Thanks for the replies. I can see the revamping of the line to entice the consumer to a higher priced body without the fear factor of re-buying all the extras. The desire for a broader market and filling the gaps make sense, I just didn't see the value that others see in the feature set. I knew there was a reason for the revamp and figured this was why but I was having a hard time seeing the forest for the trees.

Honestly I never thought of the student film makers. I see video on a DSLR and think that's a P&S POS feature. I know the 5D MkII was used for various film and TV, but that's a full frame camera so it never crossed my mind.

Funny that you mention strobist inkista. I would try high speed because it's a feature of the 7D but that's about the only reason. I guess Canon is trying to get people to have a taste and maybe make a future sale out of it as well as broaden their market base.

I was meaning the screens like the EF-D screen. I prefer it to the standard focus screen on the 50D.

Glad I didn't say it was a useless update but rather not useful to me and I didn't understand it. I'm not sure I'll ever see the 60D as a prosumer body but I can see the point of the feature set now.

Thanks everyone.

[Sime]

Canon? Don't they make photocopiers?!... teehee

I've heard the 5DMKIII thing over and over... latest rumour is that the 1Ds series is being dumped, the 5DMKIII is filling that gap.... yeah, err?

THere will, as everyone has said, be a newer better bigger brighter faster fitter stronger model.... buy what you can afford, love it, shoot with it, have a nice cuppa and put your feet up when the newer model comes out...

[inkista]

Originally Posted by Sime

I've heard the 5DMKIII thing over and over... latest rumour is that the 1Ds series is being dumped, the 5DMKIII is filling that gap.... yeah, err?

I know. The rumors are very odd about what's happening with the 1Ds Mark IV. But given how Hollywood's using the 5Diis, I have a feeling someone's misinterpreting "a whole new camera" thing. My guess would actually be something more like a Hollywood filmmaker edition of the 5Dii. But that's based on absolutely nothing but the fact that it's painfully clear a dSLR is a PITA to use for filmmaking in many ways.

Originally Posted by Deleted

Honestly I never thought of the student film makers.

Yeah, most of the focus has been on the pros and things like the House finale, last season. But not only do they get cheaper cameras and lenses, but also a much larger image plane than they're used to. 35mm motion film is basically still-image 35mm film turned 90° with half-sized frames. Essentially, they're used to working with a 2x crop, and now they've got 1.5x, 1.6x, and 1x available to them. They're going thin DoF nuts. It's the main reason that Gale Tattersale (the House DP went for the 5D mark II. And by 35mm film camera standards, an $1800 85L was dirt cheap.

There's a fascinating video of a seminar with Tattersale about the House finale up on the Canon website.

I see video on a DSLR and think that's a P&S POS feature. I know the 5D MkII was used for various film and TV, but that's a full frame camera so it never crossed my mind.

Check this out.

Transformers from repey815 on Vimeo

Shot on a 550D with the 18-55 IS kit and thrifty fifty. Also a bit on a friend's D5000 and 18-55 VR kit. Might open your eyes a bit on why some filmmaking nuts want this feature.

I was meaning the screens like the EF-D screen. I prefer it to the standard focus screen on the 50D.

So was I. The 7D has a transparent LCD overlay in the viewfinder. This is so you can turn grid lines on and off in the viewfinder. But obviously, the LCD has to be wired in so current can hit the liquid crystals for the lines to change their polarities. So, you can't just swap a small chunk of plastic in and out any more.

Actually, the LCD overlay is in the screen that has the AF spots in it, so Canon could have kept the interchangeable focus screen feature in there, but they chose not to, the same way that Nikon has. I have a friend with a D700 who's slightly annoyed that he can't use his old Nikon film camera focus screens in it.