Upgrading from Canon XSi to 7D...

[ryder]

I am currently using the XSi/450D and EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L for wildlife shots. I am missing way too many early morning shots because it seems that anything over ISO-400 is useless. From everything that I am reading, the 7D will function much better at high ISO settings. Is this true for those with experience on the 7D? I caught a great shot of an eagle grabbing a fish from an Ozark Mountains stream, but at ISO-800 it was too noisy even after trying to clean up in Neat Image stand alone version. I was deep in a valley, on the shady side of the stream very shortly after sunrise. I suspect that a really good shot would have needed ISO-1600 to keep the shutter speed up. I know I should look at f/2.8 glass but that is way out of reach for now and would also require a great tripod with gimbal head. I am just an amateur and cannot spend that much. Would the 7D be better or not?

[gturner]

The 7D is your best bet - you will be stunned by the difference.
(unless you want to spring for a MkIV)

[inkista]

For me, moving from a 350D to a 50D gave me only about a stop's worth of iso noise improvement. A lot of HOW you use your higher ISO has a lot to do with what you eventually get.

For me, I finally just turned off 1/3 stop ISO settings completely, because I never knew if the camera was doing digital pull or push processing to achieve those partial stops. I don't think Nikons suffer from this, but with the 1/3 stops in Canon cameras, they're not actually tweaking the voltage gain on the sensor. They're just using one of the full stop settings, and then under/over exposing and pushing/pulling the exposure in the in-camera processing. The result of this is that you can sometimes get more noise with lower ISO settings, which is the opposite of what you'd expect.

Secondly, of course, there's exposing to the right to avoid having to push process in post. Same deal. Pushing an underexposed photo always gives you more noise. And despite what people will tell you, if you shoot RAW you can recover a certain amount of detail from blown highlights. Low light situations encourage you to underexpose.

But third, since you're birding with a 400mm like me, chances are good that you're simply seeing more noise because you're cropping all your shots. That's like magnifying, and the noise just gets bigger no matter what you do. In this case, the higher megapixel count can help, because the noise will at least be smaller when you crop. But it's still going to be there. I don't think a 7D for the noise performance alone is worth it.

But for the advanced autofocus system, choice of a high-speed burst rate, and better ergonomics, it certainly will be. My 50D for birding was a revelation when I finally figured out back-button autofocus and how to store those settings into a custom mode on the dial (otherwise it's monkeying with TWO custom functions to turn it on/off the way I like it). I'm not necessarily catching shots I'd have missed before, but these tools are a better fit for the job that let me get a little extra polish on the shots I am nabbing.

[ryder]

I guess what I am asking is how much is true and how much is advertising? The XSi/450D advertises that it has ISO-1600, but real world performance is MUCH LOWER for me. Now I am seeing the 7D that is suppose to go to ISO-6400 and wonder how much is real and how much is advertising BS. Any 7D users got any answers?

The 7D has a lot more than high ISO that I like including larger bursts in both JPG and RAW modes, and it uses Compact Flash instead of SDHC cards that will write much faster. Plus a much better body build in general, but all of this is not worth it if the ISO is no better than what I have. I am disabled and only have my Social Security for income, so I cannot waste money on a dream and it will be years before I can save up for the EF 400mm f/2.8 IS USM lens at $8000 US!!!!

[i speak in math]

The upcoming Pentax K-5 has ISO 51,200 (not really usable of course) but looks really good at 6400 or below.

[Elvie]

I upgraded from a 450 to 7D & think the iso performance is much better. Its certainly fine up to 800 & 1600 is usable. The burst rate & autofocus are great. Its even got a rear autofocus button so no fiddling about in menus & you don't forget you've selected it because both it and the shutter button are live for every shot!

I'd save some money and get the T2i. It's supposed to have the same sensor and similar firmware, so the images should look the same.

You don't really see a huge improvement until you jump up to the 5D Mark II.

[rharrison]

Originally Posted by inkista

For me, I finally just turned off 1/3 stop ISO settings completely, because I never knew if the camera was doing digital pull or push processing to achieve those partial stops. I don't think Nikons suffer from this, but with the 1/3 stops in Canon cameras, they're not actually tweaking the voltage gain on the sensor. They're just using one of the full stop settings, and then under/over exposing and pushing/pulling the exposure in the in-camera processing. The result of this is that you can sometimes get more noise with lower ISO settings, which is the opposite of what you'd expect.

Interesting tip. I'm going to give that a try. I typically use the full stop increments anyway so it'll make switching faster too.

[hieu1004]

7D will be a good bet for what you are trying to do. I am comfortable using high ISO, even up to 12800 if need be on my 7D. Like inkista had said, exposing to the right helps...a lot. For a lot of my low light shots, I expose to the right and pull down the exposure in post - this will help dramatically with noise. You can learn more at the link below.

Expose Right

Here is an example of a 6400 ISO shot with my 7D, exposing to the right w/minimal NR from Lightroom:

[ryder]

Thanks for the input all. I just need to save up either way. The T2i is an interesting option as it seems it would help with the noise problem, but for the difference I might just save for the 7D anyways. Two processors seems like it will really speed up things and the faster write speed is good. However it IS more than the camera. I will need the more expensive cards, etc. so maybe it is too expensive a change. A lot to think about. As always DPS comes through with food for thought....