stupid question about 580exII

[dishingthedivine]

Okay, this is probably a stupid question, BUT I'm looking at one day getting a speedlite 580exII and despite all my reading in the amazon reviews, I can't find anywhere where it says that this flash is wireless. I am assuming it is, but can you verify that for me? And if I bought this particular flash, would I need to buy any other accessories to use this flash off of my rebel xti or can I just pop the flash on/off and use it without additional pieces?

thanks for your help.

[RustySterling]

No. Your Xti pop-up flash will not control the 580EX II off-camera. If you want to control it off-camera you need to get a second 580EX II, one on-camera as master and the other off-camera as slave, or get an ST-E2 transmitter. Another solution would be to get the 580EX II and a 430EX II, using the 580 on your camera as the master to control the 430 as a slave.

[Doug Pardee]

As Rusty said: the flash is wireless, but your camera is not.

Further alternatives to Rusty's suggestions: you can put a Wein Peanut (Digital version!) trigger on the 580 EX II and use the pop-up flash to trigger it optically. Or you can use Radio Poppers, Pocket Wizards, etc., to trigger it by radio.

You might want to check in the Lighting forum to see if they have any suggestions: http://digital-photography-school.com/forum/lighting/

[RustySterling]

Doug is right, there are other alternatives, like he said. The Pocket Wizard route would cost you as much as a 430EX II, however. Don't know what the cost of Radio Poppers are but I think they are less expensive

But the photo slave option (Wein Peanut) is quite inexpensive by comparison. I've photo slaved off camera flashes in this manner in the past. Didn't think of it because I shoot so often with studio strobes these days. I hardly ever do the Strobist thing unless I'm outdoors. And then I tend to do what I advised because I have 2 580EX IIs and 1 430EX II.

Makes me think I should work with my Pocket Wizards to an off-camera 580 as master to my other two flashes slaved.

Gawd, so much gear and so little time.

[oldwolf]

You can also try the Cactus v4 triggers or the cybersyncs to trigger the flash off camera.

The other way to control the 580 off camera is to get the Canon 7d which has the ability to control flashes off camera.

I've got the Cactus v2 triggers that I hacked to have a longer range and I bought some cybersyncs. Both have worked fine for me.

[dishingthedivine]

Originally Posted by oldwolf

You can also try the Cactus v4 triggers or the cybersyncs to trigger the flash off camera.

The other way to control the 580 off camera is to get the Canon 7d which has the ability to control flashes off camera.

I've got the Cactus v2 triggers that I hacked to have a longer range and I bought some cybersyncs. Both have worked fine for me.

Ha, ha! Maybe I forgot to mention that i'm on a serious budget. I get $50 a month play money. That means that already the flash will mean saving up for 8 months and anything else is just on top of that. So, while the Canon 7d looks fantastic, it ain't happen' at this point.

Can someone tell me more about the v2 triggers? I haven't ever heard of this and don't see much on-line about it (no amazon reviews at all!)... Worth pursuing as a way to get the flash off the camera???

[inkista]

Don't recommend the Wein peanut, even the digital one. People have been reporting lots of trouble with them for various setups. The Sonia optical triggers from Flash Zebra are probably a better bet, as there are some that are specifically for Canon use.

The problem with trying to use an optical slave with a non-7D Canon pop-up flash, however, is that the pop-up cannot be put into Manual mode, so it will always fire a pre-flash, which can prematurely set off an optical slave. The "digital" ones are supposed to have a delay so that they won't fire on the preflash but only on the main flash burst, but this doesn't always work in practice. The Sonia triggers are no exception to this, btw, and from all reports cannot be used with the pop-up flash as a master.

I am able to use an optical slave with my 50D/XT's pop-up flash, so I'm not sure how good those reports are. I use an old Nikon SB-26's built-in optical slave without any problem: as long as the SB-26's power is set to 1/2 or lower it has time to recycle between the preflash and the real flash burst. So, possibly this will work with other speedlight units, like the 580EXII, but I'm not 100% sure on this.

The shortcomings of optical slaves are the preflash issue, and the fact that any random stranger walking by with a point-and-shoot can set it off. They fire whenever a flash burst is detected. They're also limited in terms of range and line-of-sight (i.e., the sensor on the slave has to "see" the burst).

You could also forget wireless and go corded with a long sync cord. Obviously, the drawback is that you're tethered and limited by the length of the cord. But the payola is that you can have full eTTL function. Most cheap triggering systems only communicate the "fire"/center pin signal on the hotshoe. All that extra function that's built into the 580EXII, which you paid that extra money for is not going to be accessible to you if you use an optical slave or most radio slaves. No high-speed sync. No repeating/stroboscopic mode. No automatic power-setting based on through-the-lens metering (e-TTL II), no remote wireless setting of flash power levels from the camera. Etc. Etc. This is why people pay beaucoup bucks to have an on-camera master unit--to get all this functionality back over wireless.

But with a sync cord, all the pins can be wired up between your camera and the speedlight's hotshoe, so you'll have all that stuff back. All you'd need is a hotshoe to PC adapter for your camera's hotshoe (only the XXD and XD bodies have PC ports built in), and a PC-to-PC cord. Again, Flash Zebra has all this stuff for sale.

The best solution to go off-camera at a low cost, though, are probably eBay radio triggers like the Cactus V4s or the Yong Nuo RF-602s. They work on the hotshoe of the camera and the flash, so you don't need any adapters. And the transmitter on the camera hotshoe acts as your master, so you won't need an additional speedlight, like you would if you used Canon's proprietary light-based signalling.

Now, you're back to center-pin-only signalling, so no fancy eTTL stuff. But unlike a light-based system, you're not limited by line-of-sight (i.e., you could tuck a flash out of site behind a doorframe and still pop it, even though the receiver can't "see" your transmitter), and the range is a lot larger. And you're more reliable outside in bright sunshine (which can overpower the signal).

But. if you're going to go with radio triggers, then you may as well not get a 580EXII, but get an all-manual flash, since you're going to have to set the power manually on the flash back, anyway. A LumoPro LP120 or a used SB-26 is only $130. A Vivitar 285HV/Cactus KF36 is about $90.

The 580EXII is great if you're planning on doing both on- and off-camera work. Having all those extra eTTL bells and whistles and the added power and 360° swivel is more important for on-camera bouncing. But off-camera, you can get the light in closer, so you may need less power. You have the light on a stand, so swiveling isn't that big a deal. And all that extra eTTL stuff isn't accessible to you, unless you blow $400-$500 on a Tx/Rx set of ttl-capable PocketWizards or RadioPopper PXs.

[dishingthedivine]

Originally Posted by inkista

The 580EXII is great if you're planning on doing both on- and off-camera work. Having all those extra eTTL bells and whistles and the added power and 360° swivel is more important for on-camera bouncing. But off-camera, you can get the light in closer, so you may need less power. You have the light on a stand, so swiveling isn't that big a deal. And all that extra eTTL stuff isn't accessible to you, unless you blow $400-$500 on a Tx/Rx set of ttl-capable PocketWizards or RadioPopper PXs.

Thanks SO MUCH for such an indepth response. That is incredible helpful. I plan on doing most of my flash work on camera as I don't do portrait photography. I don't really see myself doing a ton of off camera stuff (except possibly for my food blog) but at the same time, at the price I'd be paying for the 580, I figured I should check to see what my capability is before making the plunge.

So, sounds like the best plan according to your response would be to buy the 580exII for on-camera stuff and then get a connector cord for the off camera work so that I maintain the full functionality of the 580. Please let me know if I've interpreted your "camera speak" correctly.

Again, thanks for the time you guys have put into the response. It's very, very helpful.

[inkista]

Yup. That's a fair translation. Another possible option is to look for a used 580EX mkI, rather than getting the MkII. You'll give up the PC port on the flash, the fastlock hotshoe, and the autothyristor, but a hotshoe adapter will probably cost a lot less than the $50-$100 you could save. And the XTi can't do the control-the-flash-from-the-camera-menu thing that was the main MkII innovation. For that you'd need a 450D/500D.

[oldwolf]

You can also try this out.

Amazon.com: Vivitar DF383 Digital TTL Shoe Mount Power Zoom /Swivel /Bounce Auto-Focus Flash for Canon TTL, Guide Number 45m (147'): Camera & Photo