Help! Need tips for first group photo assignment!

[TNBDM]

So I get a call yesterday from my brother-in-law's wife. It seems that her family is having a get together on Monday for the Memorial Day holiday (yes, I'm in the US). Her mother has been trying to hire a photographer to come do a large family portrait as well as some shots of all her grandsons together, but she hasn't been able to find anyone who's willing to do it on Memorial Day.

Enter me, with my nifty DSLR and much-exaggerated photographic skill. I haven't yet learned how to say no, so I agreed to come out Monday morning and do the shoot for the family. I have a whole slew of questions, since this is my first time doing a photo assignment for anyone but myself. Some are technical, some are not. Any and all answers and advice is much appreciated.

First off, they want to pay me. I've told them repeatedly I'm not comfortable taking any money at all until after I've done the shoot and they decide they're pleased with the results. They insist on giving me gas money, which I guess I'm okay with, but as far as payment otherwise, how should I handle that? I'm really at a loss for determining how much my time is worth for doing this. How do you figure out how much to charge someone for a shoot when you've never done a shoot before? And how should you handle doing a shoot for someone like this who's sort of pseudo-family?

Now, the more technical stuff. Here's my gear, so you can keep that in mind:

Canon Digital Rebel XTi / 400D.
Canon 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 non-USM (kit lens).
Canon 50mm f/1.8 (aka the Nifty Fifty, aka the Thrift Fifty).
Tamron 28-75 f/2.8.
Velbon tripod that's older than I am.
Canon electronic shutter release cable.
Assorted filters that fit the kit lens (polarizing, UV, etc.).
I have NO external flash unit as yet (there is a Vivitar 285HV in my future, though).

My understanding is that the family wants to do the main shoot out in the woods in late morning (around 11am would be my guess). The light will be far from ideal, but I'm hoping there'll be enough shade from the trees to keep everybody from looking totally washed out. The secondary, grandsons part of the shoot will be near a creek in the same woods.

Here's what I'm thinking. I'll get there around an hour ahead of time to scope out the area and plan how I want things set up. There are going to be MANY small children involved, so speed is going to be key; knowing how I want it to go before everybody has to get there and stand around waiting for me will make things go much, much more smoothly. I'll set up on the tripod, probably do some mirror lock-up and use the cable release just for that little feeling of extra security it'll give me. Then when it's time to do the grandsons, I'll probably have to resort to handheld and luck (there are about a half dozen of them between the ages of 5 years and 6 months).

What am I not thinking of? What challenges are there going to be in this specific shooting context that I'm not seeing? Any tips for shooting in the woods? For shooting lots of kids? I'll be perusing the tips on this site between now and Monday for sure, but anything any of you have to add would be most helpful.

All I really want is to do a decent job for some nice people. Any advice you can give me to achieve that goal would be most appreciated. Thanks!

[wulf]

I haven't done anything quite like that but I would be inclined to take lots of pictures - have you got a nice big memory card / cards?

Wulf

[jmadigan]

Might help to get someone to act as an assistant, too. If time is of the essence it might help to have someone to hold a reflector, pass lenses back and forth while changing, round up and prep kids for the next shots, etc.

Also, charge your battery. :)

[TNBDM]

@wulf
I've got a pair of SanDisk 2gig Ultra IIs. Shooting in RAW, that'll give me 350-400 shots. If that's not enough...well, I'll take my laptop, just in case I need to dump the cards.

@jmadigan
Hadn't thought about recruiting an assistant. I'll have to look into that. And yes, BOTH batteries will be fully charged, for sure. ;)

[Angela]

Kids are tough. Especially that age group.

I suggest that you find your spot for the larger of the groups, if you're photographing all of the children together, with parents, try to have parents or someone hold the child/ren on a lap to keep them in the photo spot whileyou take the shot. This way they will be less inclined to turn their bodies around completely.

Set up the adults or older children into the frame first (unless they are holding a small child) save spaces for them and put them in last.

In my experience - which is on a great scale with dealing with children - not so grand with photographing - as I'm just starting in the business - you have to get the kids within the first several shots as they lose focus very quickly.

You may suggest - after your first few shots if there is too much uncooperative behavior that if everyone gives you a few more smiles, you'll take a FUN picture and ask them to all make a funny face.

That usuallyworks well enough to get a few more shots in.

As you get your first few arrivals to your spot, you may want to take a test shot or 2 to make sure that your're getting good light and determine whether you need to use fill light via your flash, and to be sure of your exposure settings. You want to do this with an actual person in the frame and not just the background scenery.

With the shots of the kids by the river, if you have a zoom lens try using that and getting some candid shots. The subject doesn't have to be looking at you and smiling, sometimes the best shots are the ones where the focus is elsewhere.

As far as money is concerned - you should take omething for your time.

If you are not comfortable asking for a set fee, tell them that anything they's like to pay is fine. I (being very new to this business and very unsure of my skill) usually charge $50.00 an hour. I am quickly realizing thought that that hour turns into a few when you calculate your time in the post process and travel.

I also have found that although I take tons of shots when dealing with kids and groups, the best are usually within the first few shots in each setup.

As I said I'm not a big pro, but my familiarity with children and people in general helps me to be pretty good at getting shots that everyone is happy with.

You're best bet is to go in there confident - at least pretend that you know exactly what you're doing - and have fun. I'm sure ou'll do great. You asked all the right questions so you must have some idea of how to do it:D

[Sime™]

Gday! ...my first thought was the same as Wulfs... take lots of shots. Make sure you know your kit and what it can do so you don't have them standing around toooo much (kids / boredom) ...though that said... bored kids faces are quite cool sometimes.

charge like a wounded bull!!.. kidding kidding... what you are comfortable with and as you build up your confidence and get more jobs, you charge more..

Good Luck and I hope you show us a couple of your shots?!...

Sime.

ps: if I were closer, i'd assist for FREE!... but UK is a little way off.

[Angela]

Which state are you in?

[Sime™]

Hey Angela, if you mean TNBDM (Ben) You will find him in Tennessee, USA.

me, on the other hand.. i'm in a post work / chilled out kind if state :)

[Angela]

LOL Sime.

Well I can't assist.
I'm all the way on the east coast of the US.

If he were here, he'd get rained out anyway and have to do it indoors which would be even more challenging. (At least to me its challenging - I work better with natural light)

[mikem12188]

And as someone else pointed out on another thread, for the kids, don't forget the duct tape:D

[smpimages]

With a large group you will get some looking away, blinking, sneezing etc. What I like to do is take 3 or 4 pictures in rapid succession and surely one will be good without someone blinking or looking away.

[mdwsta4]

aside from taking multiple pictures for that 'one' winner, i'd suggest using at least two flashes if it's a large group (positioned at 4 and 8 o'clock or so) because if you're shooting in shaded trees and the shade is not consistent you'll have some people's faces in mostly shade, others in sunlight or if the foliage of the trees is thin you'll have patchs of light. umbrellas would create a softer light and throw the light out more to cover a larger crowd. to create more depth you could use another flash pointed at a background tree(s).

out of your lenses i'd probably use the 50 because it's arguably the sharpest in your group.

when you talk to the family, you may want to make sure they're not banking on your photo to be THE photo to remember some huge event. if it doesn't turn out like they expected they'll be crushed.

[RobPlahn]

I'm still way to new at this to give much helpful advice, but I'm finding myself in similar situations and I'm anxious to hear how it turns out for you. I really liked what someone said about going in their confident. If taking money makes you more nervous or erodes your confidence, I'd wait until you deliver the photos or after the shoot to discuss or accept payment. Confidence is key when directing groups of people, and the group will be able to relax with you in control.

I do have one photo tip for you. Actually it's from this forum. Earlier I was reading the Quintuplets Car Wash post and found a great gem called Group Shots. I haven't tried it yet, but it’s a free tool that will create a composite from multiple shots. Setup on the tripod, shoot several continuous shots each time your ready, then later if one of the kids looks away or someone blinks, you can use the composite to solve the problem. Like I said, I haven't tried it but I can't wait to see the results. You can read the post at http://digital-photography-school.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2394.

Good luck on the shoot! Can’t wait to hear and see how it turned out.

[tigerlily]

TNBDM -
This sounds like a great opportunity, and an awesome place to take some really beautiful posed and candid shots.

It would be nice if you could talk them into going earlier in the day (which would work soooo much better for kids under 4, as well as better for your exposure.) Seriously, little kids are going to be ready for a nap around midday, and won't be very tolerant. It's likely to be somewhat frustrating for all of you.
If changing the time isn't possible, you might consider creating very "casual" portraits, almost candids in the sense that they are positioned or placed, but then taking shots where they're simply interacting with eachother or the surroundings, and not necessarily looking directly at the camera. (I think this looks great with parents and kids, or kids together, in particular.) I'm not sure if this will work for you, but being flexible and taking whatever opportunities present themselves (and keeping a sense of humor) will, I think, help tremendously in making this shoot successful.
Good luck! Please post your results - I'd love to see what you come up with!

[MtnTopRebel]

I have done many hundreds of groups in the past, most done indoors with lots of flash power and film, however here's my 2 bits. Several years ago I did a horse show, it was my first job with my new at the time Canon 10D digital slr. The week before the weather was bad I shot film and it was a pain.. when the 10d came in I had little time to experiment. The weather was hot, and and the horse show organizers told the judges and participants to do their events in the shade the grandstands. Now with film I would have been dead, but with the digital much to my happy surprise, the digital provided the contrast and tones that I wouldn't be able to get with film. The result was good skin-tone, contrast and the elimination of heavy shadows around the eyes common of the shooting in the sun. OK so now we come to the groups. I would select an area out of the direct sun, If you want some light into the area, go get a 4x8 sheet of foil back foam board from your build supply store, cut it in half, and tape it back together with duct tape so it will fold and open, and use it as a reflector to push in some light. (for your own satisfaction) take some family or friends and go scope out the shooting site and practice on them to see what you get. Check the pictograph image to see if the exposure is correct. If your camera doesn't show the pictograph download a free copy of XnView (google search for it...) it will show your exposure info. Shoot some variations, go home view them and print some 8x10's and inspect them for best results.
Now grouping.... If this is a family reunion type group, you have several issues to contend with. Usually grand parents are seated first and center, and their descendants are grouped around them. Children are a mixed bag, often they can be seated (small babies are usually held by the parents), or even sat on the grass or ground . But that depends on the ground around them. Attempt to group each family by size and age with the taller ones to the back and stagger them so each row is offset of the person in front of them so that all parties can be clearly seen. Oh, also watch for background material that distracts from the shot... for example small trees that appear to pop out of the head of the person in front of them etc.
Proportions... If you are going to offer 8x10s try to build the group so that it fills the 8x10 in proportions or if 5x7 a longer narrower proportion but fill the group as full as you can so it isn't a long narrow string of people.
Lastly Might I suggest a sign about 18x24 neatly done with about 1 inch letters naming the family(ies) where and the date. I would also consider printing a list of people on your computer by rows and description on an additional paper you deliver with your prints so that in the future, people will be able to identify who is where.
Hope this helps, enjoy the shoot.

[Angela]

So how did the shoot go???????