Deal 10: A hot topic, at a hot price!
Canon today announced its long awaited debut into the Mirrorless Interchangeable lens market with their Canon EOS-M camera.
We’ve seen all the other major players in this market for some time with manufacturers like Fujifilm, Olympus, Panasonic and Sony not only having released numerous camera bodies but also growing numbers of lenses (see the best selling cameras in this class among our readers).
The Canon EOS-M is built around an 18 megapixel APS-C sensor (the same one that is in the T4i/650D) and a new lens mount (EF-M is the mount name). They also announced two EF-M lenses today – a f2.0 20mm pancake lens and a F3.5-5.6 18-55mm IS lens. In addition to these two lenses they’ll release an adapter that will allow those buying the EOS-M to use any of their EF and EF-S lenses.
The big complaint though that many people have is that there is no EVF (electronic view finder) which is something many other cameras have in this segment of the market.
The EOS-M also features a touch screen LCD, hybrid Autofocus, full HD video and ISO of up to 25,600. Also announced today is a new compact EX Speedlite flash – the 90EX.
The Canon EOS-M will retail for $799.99 USD when bundled with the 22mm lens or $849 when bundled with the 18-55m lens, $1049 when bundled with both lenses or $979 with the 22mm lens plus the EF adapter.
It comes in Black, White, Silver or Red.
We’ll get a first impression review and fuller review of the Canon EOS-M if and when Canon return our calls
August 13, 2012 01:41 am
@Amanda: My earlier post already touched on the need to improve the lenses of camphones so we're in agreement there. Optical zoom (instead of digital zoom) also helps. The N95 of Nokia had this and I could tell the difference between a picture taken at 5X zoom compared to one at the widest angle and cropped to resemble the optically zoomed picture. Cropping and enlarging pictures introduces image degradation which is why having more megapixels helps. There should be less degradation with cameras having more megapixels (assuming the processor does it's job) during enlargement of the photo. The problem with having too many MPs is that it introduces noise, which is why having a good processor helps. The Nokia Pureview 808's processor is designed to manipulate the megapixels to serve as a souped up digital zoom where less image degradation and pixelation occur during cropping and enlargement which is why their pics come out better than other phonecams. I hope this leads to other companies improving their phonecams to the point that it would serve as a serviceable backup to their enthusiast cameras. I own an iPhone 4s and am much more excited about its results than my point & shoots'. Phonecams still lag in image quality due to their smaller sensors, specially when it comes to low light performance, but the apps add so much to the fun factor that I have all but abandoned P&Ss. I won't give up my DSLR when going on a photo walk but for everyday picture taking, nothing beats having a handy gadget on you at all times as my phone usually is.
FWIW The lenses of the Nokia N95 and the 41mp Nokia Pureview are made by Carl Zeiss.
August 12, 2012 02:40 pm
You can start pre-order at Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Canon-Compact-Systems-Camera-3-0-Inch/dp/B008NENG1A or via BHPhotoVideo http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/883304-REG/Canon_6609b033_EOS_M_Digital_Camera_with.html.
Both offer $799.99 tag price
August 12, 2012 08:02 am
@ eeps. No the main problem of adding too many megapixels to cameras with small sensors is not really the processor speed, it's the lens. All lenses cause refraction no matter how good because ultimately they are made of molecules which will impede the photons of light. This is a greater problem the smaller the sensor. This is why DSLRs have larger sensors.
So there's comes a point with megapixels where you have an optimal amount to resolve the full resolution the lens can possibly deliver. Adding more doen't achieve anything, it serves so practical use whatsoever and can even degrade image quality. Particularly the apparant quality, because when people look at such images at 100% magnification they will just see a load of mush and not the razor sharp quality a DSLR can deliver.
So I would argue making a 40 MP mobile phone sensor is just plain crazy. Not to mention the fact people mostly use mobile phones to share images on e.g. Facebook or Instagam and you don't need huge amount of megapixels to show pictures on a computer screen or mobile devices. Besides which since megapixels doesn't improve lens quality, images would still look blurred if they were printed at large poster sizes, because although one might have sufficient Pixels per Inch (PPI) resolution, they don't have the optical quality to match.
August 12, 2012 02:41 am
@Amanda Barry: I take it you haven't tried Nokia's phone yet. Users are raving about the camera and video and audio recording. What reviewers can't get past is the price (around $700) and some complain about the size and shape (a bit bulky). Users are able to use digital zoom or crop pictures with very little image degradation, compared to even the top phone cams of today. You say 40mp is a pointless figure. Nikon long held that 12mp is all that a camera needed yet look at them now outdoing Canon in the megapixel war. More megapixels are not by in themselves pointless. They only become pointless if the processor can't handle that much information.
But technology in that area is advancing so rapidly that we may see phone cams with 100mp in a decade or so. 15 years ago, my PC had a 1GB hard drive and that was pretty good at the time. Now, I don't even bother with 1 GB SD cards for my camera. I have over 6TB (terrabytes) worth of memory scattered around waiting to be filled up. Computers now are capable of processing more information faster than ever, and this trend will continue to rise to meet demand. 40mp pointless? I shot with film (still do, actually). DSLRs are now able to outresolve (made up word) film and come up with better enlarged prints. The potential for phonecams to do the same is there.
FWIW Canon and, I believe Nikon too, have already produced 100+mp sensors, though not for commercial use. Technology is moving faster than you think.
August 11, 2012 12:20 am
Well I suppose the main reason these mirrorless cameras with larger sensors are being developed is because I think they've reached the physical limit on the number of megapixels they can add to a phone or compact/bridge camera, and actually improve the quality, not only because miniaturisation creates more noise, but because glass refraction presents limits on the resolution one can achieve with a sensor of any given size. And a larger sensor will always be better.
I suppose the other problem is, do people who mainly share photos on computer screens, e.g on the internet, and generally would only make fairly small prints actually need cameras with huge numbers of megapixels?
So I suppose at this point one could argue the growth area in the camera market is likely to be in mirror-less compacts with larger sensors, because these kind of camera do present a quality improvement on cameras with small sensors and are useful because they are smaller than a DSLR. At least to more advanced photographers.
However I don't suppose there's any point in marketing these to the average point and shoot photographer because they don't really need vast amouts of megapixels and given Depth of Field is more shallow with larger sensors, which means focus and aperture is more critical, this presents no advantages to the point and shoot photographer who just want's sharp photos and ease of use. I suppose the other thing is you couldn't really put an APS-C or fullframe sensor in a phone without making the lens bigger than the phone lol Brick phones went out of fashion in the 1990s.
So I think this explains the development of these type of cameras, they probably see this area as a growing market, whereas with the point and shoot market I think they've reached a limit to how much the technology can be improved. Because there's no real market for 40mp phone cameras, it's a totally pointless figure. Even achieving that, wont improve quality and just means people can store less photos on their memory card or computer hard disk, Or would have to reduce them more to share them on the internet. I think a lot of people realise this and there's a limit to how much totally useless technology they can market to people. lol
August 10, 2012 10:19 pm
Same thing was said about digital cameras years ago but we know how that turned out. The fact is that even if they don't replace DSLRs, they have already carved out a niche and that niche will expand even more and the most likely losers are the advanced P&S, entry level DSLR, and bridge camera sectors. That's a huge chunk of amateur and enthusiast photographers right there. If IQ was the only serious criteria of photo enthusiasts, then we'd all be handling medium or large format cameras, but the fact is, practicality counts for something. Lots of enthusiasts have already gravitated to CSCs, either as a second kit or even replacing their main kit. And more may move there as the quality of EVFs improve.
The only possible reason I see CSCs not replacing DSLRs is that the most popular cameras now are the ones you have on you. Phone cams are the most popular source of uploaded photos. As this phenomenon continues, most phone companies are now in a battle to improve the quality of their phone's cameras, with Nokia upping the ante with it's 40+MP monster. If companies begin to SERIOUSLY improve the optical properties of their lenses, THIS may be what sounds the death knell of dedicated digital cameras.
August 9, 2012 09:55 pm
These cameras look great, and their release is of course inevitable. But I believe, by now they will mainly be a stylish accessory rather than a photo camera. Maybe I am too conservative, but I think most amateur and enthusiast photographers will stick to DSLRs - they're slightly bigger and heavier, but.... optical viewfinder IS a good thing to have. And such tiny camera, with "design over ergonomics" is good only for an occasional shot or two. Correct me if i'm wrong :))
July 29, 2012 01:22 am
The EOS M is a competitor to the Nikon 1, Sony NEX F3, and other entry level mirrorless cameras. The market this was designed for doesn't care about EVF, Mic inputs, and other mid-range features. I have a post that I discuss these points and why the EOS M is not for me.
July 27, 2012 10:25 pm
it supposedly still has aliasing/moire, since it's using the same sensor as the 7D. i'm looking to grab the sony rx100. hopefully they'll add 24 fps.
July 27, 2012 03:05 am
Well I'm sure it will be popular. But I think the lack of an EVF is a bit disappointing particularly because they are very useful for shooting video and one of the things which makes bridge cameras a lot more versatile as everyday video cameras, without requiring a lot of additional accessories. Which one tends to require for shooting professional video with optical reflex DSLRs.
July 27, 2012 02:27 am
It is odd that Canon, Nikon, etc. don't see this site as worth a review unit more quickly than this.
But then, looking at this camera and the price, I don't see the value. I'm sure it takes nice shots, but how's the af speed and accuracy, especially with EF lenses and the $200+ adaptor??
This looks like Canon has missed on the mirrorless segment by aspirational pricing. That, or they're just trying to soak those already in the EOS lens system.
Pity they don't realize that glass is easily sold and people move systems. I'm about to be one of 'em.
July 25, 2012 04:10 am
It is a nice concept but I prefer a DSLR because of the better grip and ergonomics.
July 24, 2012 09:06 pm
Don't they have offices in Oz? I'd think the Aussie market would be big enough to justify regional offices who could coordinate promotional events in the area. It's a freaking continent and they're ignoring it?
July 24, 2012 10:16 am
Crazy business! The Parent bloggers seem to be wined and dined by companies that target their audiences, it seems narrow-minded for the camera manufacturers to not do the same for their gear. If nothing else, as you say, provide gear for review purposes...there are a lot of us who look to your blog and others to decide what we buy next.
July 24, 2012 10:06 am
5 million views a month? Wow, If I was Head of Canon's marketing I would be on the phone NOW! screaming to the product marketing guys and gals telling them to FEDEX you a sample.
If I was Canon's competitors I would be seizing this moment to team up with DPS and leverage Canon's mistake for their gain.
As someone who understands the power of a good review and the word of mouth marketing that can travel as a result to the 5 million readers for any marketer this blog is low hanging fruit that should be picked!
Wow! what an oversight.
July 24, 2012 09:48 am
Stupid Canon for not getting a camera like this into the hands of the #1 source of information on photography on the web (at least the #1 source for me and my classmates).
I love this new range of cameras coming out - but have to say that a camera without viewfinder is of little use to me. I was waiting for this release but now will go back to the Olympus OMD E5 and Sony NEX7 and choose one of those.
Dare I ask - do you have reviews on those?
July 24, 2012 09:43 am
I wondered why it took a while for some cameras to get reviewed and probably explains why you do some brands of cameras but not others - makes more sense now.
Must be very frustrating to work in an industry where the major players are so backward in engaging with their customers the way more and more of those customers access information.
I just can't believe that they prioritise newspapers over blogs! Don't they read those very newspapers that are constantly reporting that they are decreasing circulation because people are moving to the web?
July 24, 2012 09:24 am
Grant S - its a long story but in short we've been trying to get the kind of access other sites get with Canon (and ALL of the other camera manufacturers) for 4-5 years now.
Our readership is now in the vicinity of 5 million visitors a month but for some reason camera manufacturers seem to be focusing a lot of their PR and Marketing attention on mainstream media or a smaller group of older and big websites.
On one level I understand it but on another it is a frustrating thing as a website owner as we have a whole community of readers thirsty for this kind of information about new cameras.
In fact last time we surveyed our readers 75% had bought a digital camera, lens or other piece of gear in the last 12 months - so we have a buying community coming here to get advice on what camera they should get.
We do get review units from some manufacturers but are usually well back in the line - for example I was promised a camera from one manufacturer for review soon after it came out but was told that journalists were at the head of the line and that there would be a 3-4 month wait. It's now been 6 months and they are rumored to be releasing an update of that camera so a review is now pointless.
We've also been invited to launch events on occasion but while we have a large audience its difficult to justify paying for flight tickets from Melbourne Australia where our HQ is to different parts of the world at our own expense.
Actually our location is probably part of the problem - while our office is in Melbourne the vast majority of our readers are in the US. So local offices of Canon, Nikon, Fujifilm, Olympus etc don't have incentive to talk to us as we don't have a predominantly Aussie audience (although it is pretty sizeable when compared to camera magazines in Aus) and overseas offices hear we are in Australia and won't deal with us. Frustrating.
So we continue to patiently wait our turn to review old cameras (or we've also at times bought cameras ourselves to review) and find out via other sites and occasional press releases when a new camera hits the market.
End of grumpy comment :-)
July 24, 2012 06:53 am
Patch - I don't think it will replace the entire lineup of Rebel cameras but I do think it will eventually (after a cheaper model comes out) replace the stripped down t3 model line. Many of the people that purchase the lowest Rebel model are just wanting more flexibility and better quality than their current P&S and their only option has been the cheap Rebel. This will give them another option (again, once a cheaper model comes out) and it will be a nice compromise between a P&S and a full DSLR.
July 24, 2012 03:41 am
I have a feeling this will serve to replace the Rebel lineup of entry level DSLR's. Its basically a rebel package in a powershot body with its own lineup of lenses, and if it catches on, i dont see the need of consumer level DSLR AND compact bodies. They still have their fair lineup of pro-sumer level DSLR beyond this market, and for a consumer market, these cameras do, or will do soon, all the things a mirrored camera can do just as well.
July 24, 2012 03:18 am
@eeps: Canon have a habit of really not putting out the right spec time and time again. 5D MKII had 9 focus points. G1X is slow. This has no EVF. It seems that they really just don't get it and are very much trading on their name.
July 24, 2012 03:03 am
Nice to see a crop sensor but why no EVF? If their target was P&S users looking to move up, then a crop seems like overkill. If their target was enthusiasts, then no EVF means shooting away from the body, which is a stability nightmare. Who is their target market?
Personally, as a Canon user, the only draw is the adapter that would allow me to use EF and EF-S lenses with it (and only if it allows auto everything). Nothing earth shattering about their entry that would justify such a long wait to get into the market. Just another new offering to saturate an already overcrowded market. Overall, I'm more excited about the OM-D and NEX-7. If they waited so long to enter into this market, they should have come up with a better product that would've made a bigger splash, like a full frame mirrorless or a rangefinder sized DSLR. This one, meh. I think I'll wait for the upgrades.
July 24, 2012 01:54 am
Same here...waiting for the review.
July 24, 2012 01:36 am
Is this their version of the Sony NEX?
July 24, 2012 01:12 am
Hope Canon return your calls because I'd love dPS's opinion on this one.
Actually why don't you already have access to it? I see sites like DPreview, Engadget etc already posting first impression reviews who seem to have access to the camera - I would have thought you'd have been in the same boat as them to get access before release?
I see you're close to a million subscribers - is that not big enough for Canon?
July 23, 2012 11:50 pm
Amazed but happy they didn't use the 1Gx sensor. Cetainly a better first entry than the Nikonn V1. Hopefully they will come out with a version with more dedicated manual control buttons for the high end market. I do love the fact that they have a version that comes with a Ef adapter. Let's see if the come out with an acceptable Ef or a future version with one built in. The only thing that bothers me is the October release date. That long launch lead time trend is annoying.
July 23, 2012 11:04 pm
It's good to see change. I'm still waiting for the need to put my seat belt on, but we'll get there soon, just a little on the slow side. But this sounds real nice. Will they add a 500mm lens?
July 23, 2012 08:43 pm
Fingers crossed, waiting for the review.
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