A New Type of Theft – Can Post Production Settings be Owned?
I’m hearing about it more and more.
One maker of Lightroom presets accuses another of stealing their concoctions and selling them as their own.
A Photoshop actions artist claims that another website’s actions were actually dreamed up by them.
In this age of digital thievery where photographers are still only just forging a way ahead with inventions like the Digital Economy Act of 2010, is the world ready to also deal with the issue of who owns “Vibrance=20, Clarity=50, Temp=6750″?
Just a little education in case you don’t know what we’re talking about:
Lightroom Presets
Presets are one-click pre-set Lightroom adjustments for photos. You can buy them, download free ones or make your own.
They are made up of different combinations of adjustment sliders like exposure, brightness, clarity, contrast, etc. There are also sliders which turn the greens more blue, mute out the reds and add vignettes.
This is a tricky one to get a handle on. Lightroom presets, although sometimes complex, are quite simplistic compared to things like actions. They really are nothing more than a combination of slider settings at the end of the day.
Can anyone own ‘vibrance=20′?
Photoshop Actions
Actions are Photoshop’s ‘version’ of presets. They are one-click action sets which run a series of pre-determined edits to a photo. They are far more detailed and specified than presets and, indeed, these do seem to be extremely well-thought out and crafted pieces of work. The more highly specified and heavy-laden action sets could easily be recognised by their creator like the back of their hand.
Watching an action run can sometimes make your think your computer is having a fit. The layers panel fills up with adjustment layers which quickly flatten and make way for a texture layer here and a masking layer there. What you’re left with is a photo that can make you wonder “HOW did it do that?!”
Textures
Textures are a bit of a side-step of the question “can a setting be owned?” but I think they should still be included in this conversation. Textures are layers which can be laid over your images in Photoshop and blended into the photo in a multitude of ways.
They are images in themselves and I am extremely surprised to find how many people out there actually have the nerve to buy an artist’s textures and then turn around and sell the sets verbatim. Without even trying to alter them! These can be easily tracked down, especially when a texture maker has an army of fans who let them know when they find something suspicious.
Last year, Matt Kloskowski of Lightroomkillertips.com opened himself up for criticism when he posted Mike Wiacek’s newly written program called the ‘preset extractor‘. This little program simply accepts the URL of an image on Flickr and spits out the LR settings used to achieve the look. It even gives you the file to import into your presets panel! There was much controversy over this little ditty and it was removed from the web. And then put back a few weeks later. And it’s still there!
That week, Matt K. wrote a very well thought out post on his blog called “Is it wrong to steal Lightroom presets?” Personally, I think if you have to call it ‘stealing’ then, clearly, it’s wrong. In the post, he later goes on to refer to it as ‘lifting presets’ which makes a lot more sense if you’re of the idea that LR settings can’t be owned in the first place.
In the post, Matt makes reference to camera settings and brings light to this issue very well:
“Just look at some of the medicines in the drug stores. Advil, Nyquil, Sudafed, etc… all of them have generic equivalents that you can pick up at Walmart. Same ingredients with a different name. Advil makers can’t do a thing about the WalMart-Vil equivalent of their product. They can’t copyright or own 150mg of Propylparaben in their drug (or any combination of ingredients) just like you can’t copyright or own f/2.8 at 1/250th or a Vibrance setting of 35 (or any combination of develop settings).”
Lets take 3 settings – Aperture, shutter speed and focal length. Those 3 settings are included in the metadata of a photo right? Now lets say I take a photo at Mesa Arch in Utah. You know, one of the ones with the sun rising through the arch (a photo that tens of thousands of people have likely taken while standing in the same spot). Then I post that photo on Flickr (or any website).
Now you look at my metadata and find that I shot it at f/22 with a 1/10 of a second shutter speed, at 17mm using my Nikon 17-55mm lens. You take your Nikon camera, your 17-55mm lens and set up exactly where I did and shoot the same photo at f/22 with a shutter speed at 1/10 of a second at 17mm. Did you break any laws? Nope. Artistically or ethically, have you done anything wrong? Heck no! So why when you add a Vibrance setting to the metadata or a Contrast slider setting does it become a problem? There is no governing body that states that I can copy your shutter speed and aperture setting but I can’t copy your Vibrance setting. They’re all part of the metadata and as far as legalities are concerned, I don’t think the law can/will discern between the two.”
Couldn’t have said it better myself!
Now, all that concerns Lightroom Presets which can be easily correlated to simple camera settings. But what about Photoshop actions? Like I mentioned before, these are far more highly customised and fine-tuned pieces of work and, personally, I think these can be easily identified by their makers and perhaps even ‘owned’ with copyrights.




56 Responses to “A New Type of Theft – Can Post Production Settings be Owned?” - Add Yours
April 24th, 2010 at 12:13 am
That’s a very interesting topic for debate, I think the problem lies in grabbing a preset and then selling it as though you created it.
Simply using someone’s preset or actions actions alone, isn’t a bad thing, except that it most like likely needs to be tweaked for your particular photo, which now makes it your settings.
April 24th, 2010 at 12:15 am
I personally agree with your view. Noone can own specific settings, and everyone should be free to post their settings in a forum (the logical next step for the “own” group would be to forbid people posting the settings of preset-packs they bought in a forum).
If think there is still a way to make money using presets though: offer custom presets for customers, throw together packs of presets so good people will pay for because they want to support you, or rely on donations. Many software people do so successfully.
April 24th, 2010 at 12:31 am
no, it’s not stealing. simple as that.
April 24th, 2010 at 12:41 am
With regards to lightroom preset, I doubt you could copyright or patent the settings and therefore I believe they are free game legally but also ethically I don’t see a problem with it. I am with Matt, just as I can copy your exposure setting without anyone thinking twice I should be able to copy your post-processing settings.
With regards to textures, clearly a photo of a texture can be copyrighted and should not be resold as-is. However, in the sense that you use them as an overlay, or a”modifier” to your own work, I personally feel that this should be fair use. Using someone else’s texture is mostly a convenience item. For example, If I needed a brick wall texture, it would be fairly easy for me to go photograph one, but if I am at home one night working on a photo and decide it needs a brick wall texture, it’s much more convenient for me to just grab one of the web. I guess what I am getting at is many (but not all) textures lack the creativity to really call them an “original work” which I think plays a big part in copyright law.
Finally with regards to actions, I think these closely parallel computer programs and again I think there are some guidelines that set what’s copyrightable, for example I couldn’t copyright a program that simply added 2 + 2, So if I have an simple action I would guess that too would not constitute a copyrightable work. But in case I am wrong, let it be known from here on out I am claiming copyright of the “make new layer” action so anyone including it in their action now owes me for creating a derivative work.
April 24th, 2010 at 12:50 am
I agree in that a preset setting can’t be “owned” as such and the real case here is downloading a preset and then selling it as your own. But that’s more morally wrong than legally. Like you said, no one can own a setting.
Photoshop actions are very different, they’re more complicated and it’s a bit of an artform to get one right and doing exactly what you want in the first place.
April 24th, 2010 at 1:00 am
While I don’t believe it’s wrong to use somene’s presets, his analogy using and comparing over the counter medicines is very poor. At one point in time all of those medicines had a patent on them and different companies could not use them except for the patent holder. Once the patent ran out then the formulation for the medicine had to be released and could then be used by other pharmaceuticals. So, at one time each of those medicines had it’s own “copyright” if you will.
Can one make an argument now for copyrights in lightroom, aperture, or other workflow programs? I wouldn’t think so and his example of shuter speed, aperture, and focal length is a good one. There are many different programs that have those settings and everyone and their dog has their own personal ones. Just the mere fact of how many people own one of those programs makes it probable that different people might come up with the exact same presets as others without even knowing it. Should one be able to sell those presets? Why not? If I take a picture at Mesa Arch (which I have, plenty) and want to sell it do I not have that right? Now, I would be upset if someone claimed my work as their own, but what if someone went down and took that same picture and post procesed it the same way? Now they have an exact picture like mine and can sell it and what can I do to stop them?
Where am I going with this? I don’t think it’s unethical or stealing to use similar presets or like actions. However, I think if you are going to sell your work, it must he your own work and doing, not someone else. If you sell presets than they better be your own and tere is the possibility that someone beat you to the punch, but as long as it’s your own work then he my guess.
April 24th, 2010 at 1:06 am
Post production setting can not be owned. There should be no debate. If that is open to debate – do I have the right to my on camera settings. ISO 800 f2.8 1/125?
I know my analogy is a bit dramatic. When artists decide to collaborate vs. compete we are all better for it.
April 24th, 2010 at 1:06 am
Hmmm, owning a preset, seems strange. If you do not want anyone to use your presets, then do not publish them, or at least do not make them available in any public form. Most cool photographers actually tell you the EXIF data settings for a shot as well as the steps they took to process a shot. I am trying to do this more myself.
I can understand wanting to keep editing/processing secrets to yourself to keep your style your own, but then do not people like Scott Kelby publish complete BOOKS on how to edit? Seems like photographers should share and if not worry about someone copying their style, as long as they are confident in their skill behind the camera itself enough.
April 24th, 2010 at 1:20 am
Something that too many people forget is that presets are only half of the story. The initial picture is the other half. You cant just blindly apply a preset and hope to get great results, you have to figure out which preset is the best for the given subject, then adjust accordingly.
As a semi-photographer, I hate presets because now people think they can get a good cross process look with a single mouse click while in fact it could require hours of tweenking. The result of this is a devaluation of our skills. To make matter worst, because of the low resolution of the web, it is nearly impossible to make the difference between a good edit and a bad one. Most presets I have seen on the net push the colors and exposure so far that they destroy color information which create pixelation. While you cant notice it on a 800×600 picture, it is obvious at full screen. Yet to the web user, they both required the same amount of work.
April 24th, 2010 at 1:23 am
I agree very quickly and simply with “settings can’t be owned”.
Presets are just a bunch of settings – no matter how you arrive at the settings (download, reading exif or just fiddling) the result is the same.
However actions (often) require a specific order to their steps and layers to achieve a particular result.
It’s not the result that is owned but the method of arriving there and I believe there are plenty precedents for protecting manufacturing methods!
April 24th, 2010 at 1:29 am
There is a clear distinction between stealing and studying that both thieves and students need to recognize. First all when you publish your hard work, in print, on a wall, or online, its not just yours anymore, its a piece of information you made available to the world to learn from irregardless of the anyones willingness or legal oblogation to pay for it. That said, claims of theft should be reserved for the ones who compromise others inherent right to free information. Your a thief if you if falsely claim a painting as your own, but a paintbrush is just a tool.
April 24th, 2010 at 1:34 am
There is a clear distinction between stealing and studying that both thieves and students need to recognize. First all when you publish your hard work, in print, on a wall, or online, its not just yours anymore, its a piece of information you made available to the world to learn from irregardless of the anyones willingness or legal oblogation to pay for it. That said, claims of theft should be reserved for the ones who compromise others inherent right to free information. Your a thief if you falsely claim a painting as your own, but a paintbrush is just an information tool, especially when you bought it from someone else.
April 24th, 2010 at 1:49 am
I agree that this is an interesting debate, but I am also pretty sure that it has been settled in court already back in the 1980′s with case related to ‘macro’ type programs created to simulate a series of keystrokes in a program like Word Perfect.
Lightroom Presets are just that, settings. I personally think it’s pretty lame that some folks will claim someone else’s work as their own no matter what that work is. However, it is highly unlikely that there is a lawyer out there that would take on a suit with that as the topic. Unfortunately, Photoshop Actions are also in the same boat. It doesn’t matter that a particular programmer’s ‘style’ may be recognizable. A macro is not eligible for copyright protection. Even the Adobe help files at one time called the actions a person can create macros.
So, while it is an interesting debate for those that enjoy that sort of thing, it is old news. Over twenty years old.
Have a great day.
Richard
April 24th, 2010 at 2:13 am
A local photographer in utah claims they have a patented editing process…. not sure how you can do that… maybe I’ll go patent the brush stroke…. photography is art and every technique has been used I’m sure…. does that mean if I accidently use the same techniques I should get in trouble for my own work? Everyone wants to stay original and fresh and you dont do that by owning rights to your process…..ridiculous….. and if you extract presets then all you’ve done is learned to achieve the result you desire….its not stealing
April 24th, 2010 at 2:16 am
I have worked as both an engineer and software developer and have seen the impact that “intellectual property” issues have had on many areas of our lives. At one point, patents and copyright served a useful purpose in in the “promotion of the sciences and useful arts” by allowing one unfettered opportunity from gaining from one’s creativity. The previously short duration of these privileges resulted in an enrichment of the public domain within a useful timespan. However, the ever-increasing term of duration is resulting in a stagnation due to the “locking” away of techniques and expressions behind the legal fiction of these “rights.” For examples just look to the Amazon “one-click” patent or the suit over George Harrison’s opening sequence in “My Sweet Lord.” And don’t get me started on orphan works.
New works are often inspired by the works of those that have come before. Seldom does something completely new spring from the mind of its creator. We can’t help it, the mind works from the sum total of its experience. It can’t help but be influenced by the works of others.
I am often dismayed at the mercenary attitudes of many “artists”, musicians, authors, painters, photographers. Yes, you need to be able to make a living with your chosen vocation, but do you really need to squeeze those pennies so tightly that your work remains caged unless someone pays for the merest glimpse. Companies like Red Hat in the open source community have shown otherwise.
Ok, to the subject at hand. Presets are like the stops on an organ (you know, the thing with 1 to many keyboards). There is only one combination of settings that will give a specific sound. Any one wanting that particular sound will end up using the same settings. A published setup is simply a convenience and can be sold as such. It merely serves to save time. Likewise with LR presets, published presets are a convenience.
Actions, on the other hand, are more like software programs or industrial processes. They are a sometimes complicated series of steps used to accomplish a particular result. However, in most instances there is more than one way to accomplish the same effect. Again, one can independently achieve the same result given the same goal. Once more, the published method is a convenience, not a necessity. As above, some people will pay for convenience. Those that won’t will spend the time to develop their own specific method or find one that’s free.
Finally, on the matter of ownership, I present something for your consideration. Does an artist own the method of the strokes of the brush or knife used to create a painting? No, these are the tools of his craft, passed from master to apprentice, teacher to student, book to reader, or the result of trial and error. They are necessary for plying his craft but are not art. The art takes place in the creator’s mind and conveyed thru the artist’s tools. The artist does not own the strokes for they are practiced by many.
And ultimately, that is all that presets and actions are, just tools of the craft.
Thanks for tolerating my rant.
David
April 24th, 2010 at 2:30 am
I agree it’s not stealing, but it’s somehow odd. I mean I would not just apply a preset and then hit export. You have to make that piece of art reflect your feelings.
Do magazines sue one another for having the same layout ? Do painters attack because they used the same colours or brush strokes for the sky ?
But here is another question
WHO OWNS HDR ?
April 24th, 2010 at 3:05 am
I see selling presets or actions is a lazy way to get some money. I don’t say that it is illegal or everything should be free, no. My personal opinion is that the more profitable way from each side (the seller and the customer) is to TEACH the way and the behind-the-scene logic. Mostly the better-trained guys in post processing (like myself, because I was into computer graphics in my whole life, from the artist side and the programmer side also) know how to do a specific effect without any reverse engineering and such. So I vote for teaching the basic stuff, and the smart ones will do their own stuff. The rest (or the lazy
) will buy the presets (wich may not work for all of their images
).
April 24th, 2010 at 3:09 am
Well said “gnarly moose”. I was going to make the brush stroke/painting analogy myself. At university I was taught the methods of Caravaggio’s light techniques, how/where to place lights in studio photography to achieve certain effects, what chemical processes will achieve many of the same looks on 35mm that people now use Photoshop to apply to digital photography. There are even dozens of art magazines for every medium that teach how to achieve a certain ‘look’. Are the professionals worried about their methods being known? No. Because it takes more than just “one-click fixes” to make a work of art.
The truth is, you can use every preset, action, technique and tutorial out there, but if you don’t know how to achieve the fundamentals of artistic quality: subject, vision, composition and form….then no amount of post-processing is going to improve it. So unless we’re going to equate these settings and actions to Bandaids….then no, they are not copyrightable.
April 24th, 2010 at 3:22 am
The thing with presets is, I don’t think anyone uses them as-is. Instead, the preset is used as a starting point and tweaked to meet the user’s specific needs. The resulting combination of settings will be unique to that user.
April 24th, 2010 at 3:34 am
“Advil makers can’t do a thing about the WalMart-Vil equivalent of their product. They can’t copyright or own 150mg of Propylparaben in their drug (or any combination of ingredients) ”
What? It’s called a PATENT. When the drug company produces a new drug, they apply for a patent by listing the ingredients in that drug. Patent law prevents anyone else from using that combination for 10 years after the patent application. Generic drugs cannot come out until after the drug company’s patent has expired.
Many companies (like PEPSI and KFC) do not get patents for their recipes because they would be forced to reveal the complete recipe in the patent application, and after the patent expired everyone would know the list of “11 secret herbs and spices” and be able to make KFC chicken.
April 24th, 2010 at 3:34 am
Gnarly moose, I think you have the answer of the day. Well done!
April 24th, 2010 at 3:58 am
I tend to agree with some of the above, using the same settings is ok, selling them it would seem, is questionable…
April 24th, 2010 at 4:52 am
Stealing?
I think many comments here may be missing the point.
The question, to me, doesn’t seem to be whether taking the presets and using them and tweaking them is stealing, rather, it’s about taking those settings, then slightly tweaking (if at all) and then SELLING them online as your own.
To me, that’s an ethical question that lies with the preset/action “creator” and only they can answer that.
April 24th, 2010 at 4:53 am
Borrow and use the preset – just don’t sell it as your own.
April 24th, 2010 at 6:36 am
You know this is a new trend lately in lawsuits ect, I feel torn on the subject however If i look at it objectively I think I know the answer.
If you are simply using photoshop or lightroom actions or settings where everything that they are doing is part of the program you should not be able to own it. you can sell the action scripts to someone so they dont have to spend the time making them but you simply cant own it. In fact if anyone owns it it is ADOBE, since they made the program that your simply telling it what to do.
Now if you incorporate your own texture file and other art it becomes yours to the extent of the art. The actions still belong to adobe that the owner of the program licensed from adobe.
I think that is simple rite? Franky if adobe puts in its EUL that noone can own a part of the program it simply takes c are of it. I know in other aspects of life you can own and patent a way of doing something. However to obtain said patent it needs to be original and of your own design, In other-words not using only the program you would need to make a 3rd party app to be able to own it and you would only own it in a 3rd party app sense.
April 24th, 2010 at 9:13 am
The whole basis for this issue is the fact that people are currently able to sell actions. I predict that in the future, PS actions will just not be a sale-able commodity. I remember many years ago having to pay a membership fee in order to rent VHS movies from the local video store. Can you imagine paying for such a “membership” now? Times change and the value of things change along with them. Anyone that claims that they “own” certain PS actions may also want to consider what kind of a royalty they intend to pay Adobe. After all, they’re making money based on that company’s work aren’t they?
April 24th, 2010 at 9:33 am
That meds example is woefully wrong. those meds are patented for 10-25 years (can’t remember the #). Any, for that duration they are protected from theft. after that, the law says they Can be copied.
April 24th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
A preset is a group or combination of settings put together in some way, but those settings are still there! In the software you bought (or not) but nobody can tell you ey! That my contrast value, don’t use it. Photography is meant to share. Even those settings. What is really wrong is to say you created something that you didn’t. But can be proved?
April 25th, 2010 at 1:59 am
Certainly stealing anything is wrong. Taking the time to author pre-sets and putting them out for public consumption is very useful especially for new photographers. Please do not ruin this for those who need the help of the pre-sets by turning around and selling someone else’s work. The program that seperates the pre-sets is great and I will certainly use that to grow my library of pre-sets.
April 25th, 2010 at 3:27 am
Unless the person says it’s a preset how can they really be owned? If someone is adept enough at photoshopping, it’s not that hard to figure out what was done. Or, they can search tutorials and see how a very similar effect is done. Unless they say they used so-and-so’s presets how would you even know? Taking a guess? You can also just play and play until you have exactly copied the effect. Who owns it then?
I can draw. I can draw fairly well. I can copy other people’s style of drawing. I regularly copy other figure studies to teach myself a new style or for practice. Technically I created the new drawing, it’s mine, I own it and I can sell it. I’m not selling an exact copy via reprint and my hand will change the final result. Who copyrighted the human body then? It’s not a specific character, it’s just an anonymous person who volunteered to pose. Who’s to say they didn’t pose for me? Indirectly they did. People sit in museums and copy works by the masters for practice and they can sell THOSE drawings as well. Does that make them thieves of DaVinci? No.
The texture thing is slightly different. If you use a specific texture made by someone and resell it or give it away for free then yes that’s stealing because there is an image being distributed without permission. But many of these textures aren’t that special. Anyone can take a photo of a canvas or cement or brush steel or dirt or whatever they want and make a texture out of it. It’s a pattern and patterns can be copied as well. Does someone own the polkadot? How bout argyle? Plaid? Even definite symbols like the fleur-de-lys and the American flag have become just patterns that anyone can copy. Unless it’s noted, how can you know for sure it was stolen without seeing the layers or going pixel by pixel over it. Fans can be wrong.
April 25th, 2010 at 5:51 am
If actions and/or presets were to be legally copywrited, wouldn’t we have a monopoly on them? At some point, we would have to pay or be fined for WHATEVER settings we used on our images. Can you see that? Contrast+1=$1.00 Alvin Albatrose, Vibrance+20=$20.00 to Bobby Boohoo, Use both, $21.00 to Mahek Madness.
Not sure how to say this without insulting anyone, but this seems to me a case of greed vs laziness.
Just my thoughts.
April 25th, 2010 at 9:20 am
This article made my day! Very funny indeed, however shows the direction we are heading to. If you have enough money and time (translate – lobby and propaganda power) you can copyright or patent anything you like. No wonder that driving it into extreme triggers the counter movement – just look at the growing popularity of pirate parties around the world. I found some good documentary movies arguing that extreme copyright law is not such a great idea, at least not for our society at large:
* Steal This Film or on-line
* Good Copy Bad Copy or on-line
* RiP!: A Remix Manifesto or on-line
In the end, it’s about cooperation versus competition, sharing versus building fences. It reflects the crisis of consciousness we are stumbling through these days.
April 25th, 2010 at 12:30 pm
I downloaded many PS actions. I do believe all actions in Adobe website are legal. But how about in DeviantArt website since I also download many PS actions from this website?
April 25th, 2010 at 3:22 pm
Love the article and thoughtful posts. I am a newbie to PS and to LR. I have paid a great deal for some sets of presets – mainly because I have not developed the artistic “eye” yet – nor do I understand fully what is possible. I use them as starting points and go from there. After reading the post – I am no linger sure I feel so good about paying the amounts that I have paid. In some cases, it was significant. Lesson learned.
April 26th, 2010 at 8:01 am
judy: hope you didn’t award it the answer-of-the-day for the shear verbiage ;^ }
gjackson: don’t feel bad about paying for some at this point – consider it a convenience item, somewhat like a frozen dinner. Sure, you could do it yourself given the investment of time, but if the convenience factor and training effect were worth it, consider it value received. Just don’t fall into the trap of thinking that the person you purchased it from owns it. As noted elsewhere by others, the ethical failing is trying to pass off someone else’s labor as your own.
As a general note, textures are a slightly different matter. Since most textures are images of one form or another, they probably qualify as copyrightable works in most jurisdictions. Not saying it’s right, but a good argument can be made.
Have fun!!!
David
April 26th, 2010 at 9:56 am
Copyright has ruined us. How long before someone tries to copyright “a”
April 29th, 2010 at 3:29 am
I completly agree, as when it comes to PS actions: This is more like writing code, than moving simple sliders in LR. It takes a lot of knowledge and finesse to make good actions, so that’s something completly different.
A LR preset is set of settings after all. Even if you take it from me (which I highly encourage if you like them) it’s not garantueed to make your picture look good. My experience is that most presets only work on a specific type of images.
April 29th, 2010 at 3:49 pm
I think there is a lot of confusion between copyright and patent in this conversation. I certainly can copyright a program that adds two plus two; You can too. Copyright means you can’t steal my work and call it your own and it really only makes sense in the world of the written word no matter how many people try to force it otherwise.
In the context of photography it makes zero logic for somebody to attempt to copyright a certain set of settings to achieve a certain effect. An action in Photoshop is just a macro of the actions you took to move sliders around. It is not like writing code
The problem is that everybody feels that they should be entitled to some form of compensation for everything they do. If you come up with a sequence of settings that achieve a certain effect for an image, instead of seeing $$$’s you should instead feel honored that have done something that has had a positive impact on a society and feel good about it.
April 30th, 2010 at 2:24 am
Sorry, but I think this is ridiculous. What’s next, paying the person who first figured out blue+yellow=green if I want to use green? Actions are not difficult to make in PS, they are ALSO, for the most part, “sliders” (or buttons). I have hundreds of actions I’ve written, I just don’t sell them. To make an action requires knowedge, time and testing and I gladly pay for certain well-made actions. But even those actions are written using the tools that Adobe (in this case) provide, Adobe created the XXX filter and the action writer is using that filter in his action but they aren’t paying Adobe for use of the XXX filter in the action. They pay for the software the same as the rest of us. Is it dishonest to take someone’s pre-scripted action and re-sell? Of course, it’s vile and a pox on those people, but sue them? No. Maybe in the next go around Adobe can add a “lock” feature (maybe password protected that the author sets) that makes it so an action can not be “opened” and have its naughty bits aired for all to see. A potential thief might be able to see the results of the action, just not its inner-workings, and be forced to write his own (more than one way to skin a cat, remember).
April 30th, 2010 at 2:29 am
If someone is worried about their presets being ‘stolen’ then they shouldn’t post them. If you are trying to make money from selling presets, then you’re just dumb. It’s ludicrous. Go find legitimate work.
April 30th, 2010 at 5:09 am
i don’t think using someone else’s preset actions qualifies as theft….it’s the finished image i would be worried about. and honestly, i think it’d make me feel pretty good if somebody was trying to copy my settings like that for their own pictures….imitation is the greatest form of flattery! ya know, as long as they’re using them on their OWN images!
April 30th, 2010 at 5:13 am
Awesome post! Very thought provoking!!
April 30th, 2010 at 6:38 am
Are preset values protected by patent law? Certainly not; preset values are obvious to a person of average skill in the relevant art.
Are preset values protected by copyright law? Probably not. Insufficient originality. Actions might possibly be covered, depending on complexity.
Are preset values protected by trade secrecy? Not if the preset values are posted for public inspection.
The most obvious approach is trade secrecy. Strip out the metadata from the photo file. Or avoid posting the photo file.
However, the Open Source model suggests that an alternative approach with some economic advantage is post the preset values or actions, and invite the community to improve them. Everyone will learn from that ongoing public evolution.
April 30th, 2010 at 8:44 am
I have been a Lightroom user from the start. I have created preset”s bought presets and downloaded free presets. Basically presets are highly subjective just as photography i.e., exposure, brightness and vibrance. Presets vary significantly with light and lens which means even if you gave me your presets if my photographs were not taken under the same conditions and with the same equipment the end result will not match. Presets should be viewed as a starting point, the creativity still lies with the photographer.
April 30th, 2010 at 11:09 pm
I’m with Ellis. They are starting points. There have been exactly 0 instances where I used a preset without needing additional tweaks to get a particular image to look as I wanted it. I love presets and the gratification (and sometimes horror) of seeing my photos transformed in a single click and I often hack into them to see exactly settings they are changing to achieve a look. But do I view them as anything more than a time saving and educational feature? No, not really.
I was once chastised for posting photos to Flickr that contained my LR settings metadata. My immediate thought was, “Wow, someone would think that my B&W tweaked with a touch of yellow and a vignette is worth stealing? Have at it.”
April 30th, 2010 at 11:28 pm
i think some people mix inspiration with stealing. i think one should only be happy being a pioneer that others are trying to get inspired by and even mimic. plus ready to download and use actions wont work well on photos that aren’t good to begin with so even if you tried to use someone else’s presets, you should have a good piece of work of your own to begin with.
what has gone wrong with this world?! is everyone looking over their shoulder and marking their territories nowadays!!
May 1st, 2010 at 3:49 am
Isn’t it all a bit of a moot point anyway? There are so many freely available presets and actions, that who needs to sell them as their own and if people are daft enough to buy what they could get for free by having a look around then more fool them!
May 2nd, 2010 at 11:57 am
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May 3rd, 2010 at 7:30 am
A non argument. Settings cannot be owned, enforced or sued over- will never happen.
The metadata example pretty much blows up the weak case that anyone who tries to claim that they own a process. I also agree that actions are a slightly different story, but taking your artistic heart out of it, its still the same thing.
You can sell practically anything nowadays, so I would never be mad at artists who just happen to have the business sense to be able to serve a need to amateurs- that’s business. Time is money, so whatever makes your like easier, by all means. If more artists/creatives had business training, the term ‘starving artists’ would finally go away.
But owning? hahah what a joke.
May 5th, 2010 at 6:40 pm
I agree that you can download free actions everywhere on the internet. Some people might have a Donate button but you don’t have to do so.
I’ve written actions and given them away. I always write them so the layers don’t flatten so people can see what I’ve done and tweak the settings or change them.
It’s all about learning and so many people I will never know helped me I am happy to pass it forward.
May 13th, 2010 at 10:31 am
While you could try to copyright a lightroom preset, I don’t believe for a minute that a court would uphold your copyright. This is more similar to a database design than over the counter drugs like mentioned in the article.
Designing a database can be very useful, but the law holds that it is just a fancy filing cabinet to be filled with data. That the method is contained as part of the database management software which is copyrighted, but your “SETTINGS” are not copyrightable! Similarly, Lightroom software contains the original part of this and the settings are just a way to configure the software to be more usable.
The only way to control this is to write from scratch a software system that does the same thing as Lightroom with your presets does. Then you can sue if anyone “steals” your system. However why would anyone pay for your system that does one thing, when lightroom can do all kinds of things depending on the “presets” you use or even create on your own.
May 14th, 2010 at 12:27 am
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May 20th, 2010 at 1:32 am
This is all very frivolous.
What’s next? Someone owning the rights on how much sugar and creamer they put in their coffee?
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April 9th, 2011 at 5:54 am
I do love the manner in which you have presented this challenge and it does indeed offer me personally a lot of fodder for thought. Nevertheless, because of everything that I have observed, I basically trust when other reviews stack on that men and women keep on point and don’t start on a tirade regarding some other news of the day. Yet, thank you for this superb piece and even though I do not really concur with this in totality, I value your point of view.
January 22nd, 2012 at 12:51 pm
I have to write about this as it is exactly what I am working on at this time. Clearly people are not making the distinction between copyrights and patents. You copyright the specific design and look of something, you patent a process or invention etc… and please understand that when it comes to patents – if it is already a simple and universal knowledge thing, you will never get a patent on it.
I am almost finished developing a set of actions that is unique in how it reaches an end-goal, compared to other competitors in the same field it is not reverse-engineered or similar in the way it works at all, it is innovative, unique, and does a better, higher quality job at achieving the desired result.
We need to realize that a photoshop action is similar to a robotic machine in an assembly line. Sure, Adobe has the patents on the parts and processes that make up photoshop – it is the tool-set and materials… but the action set I have developed is like a robot – it may use the tools and materials Adobe has patents on, but my robot is just a set of complex instructions on a specific and unique way to use those tools and materials.
I wouldn’t dream of trying to get a patent on a simple action that only has a few steps that anyone knows how to do. Just like you wouldn’t try to get a patent on a “new” type of screwdriver that essentially looks and works the same as a normal screwdriver. However, if you were to develop an advanced and complex robot or piece of machinery that might happen to use metal components, screws, and turns a screwdriver or something… you could certainly try to get a patent on your invention or “process”. The more complex and unique it is as a whole work, the more likely you can get it patented – but you aren’t getting a patent on the parts, it is the entire thing put together.
Now here is the forward-thinking part that goes along with this… I believe in a future where profit-based economics is gradually replaced with service-based economics, and where competition is gradually replaced by increasing co-operation. I also believe in teaching what you have learned to others so that as a human race we can all grow and achieve more in time. So I agree with some of the discussion here about having a combination of business models when it comes to things such as advanced and complex photoshop actions. It really requires a little training anyway, so I will have tons of FREE tutorial videos online to go along with the action-set, as well as teaching all sorts of other things from beginner to advanced with photoshop, illustrator, etc… And I am going to have a video that shows exactly the “innovation” I discovered in reaching the higher-quality results of my action compared to anything else that is out there. However, if you wanted to manually achieve what my action set does, you will end up spending countless hours for something that is essentially a production-oriented process that will work on EVERY IMAGE the same way, and is only meant to help you achieve the final result you desire AFTER the action set is run on your image. I am not stealing from my competitors and I would hope they would not steal from me, however I do believe that everyone who wants to learn will be able to do what I have done and if it truly is a better and higher quality product then we would only benefit by incorporating it into any attempt at doing the same result… but perhaps eventually an even better way will come out, and probably because of advancing tools and technology as well, not just better processes.
I have spent months developing this, and it really is not something anyone can or knows how to do, as it serves a very specific function. I cannot copyright it – there is nothing unique about the look and feel of it, it still uses photoshop’s built in play-back interfaces for the actions. However, perhaps I could further develop into a stand-alone program or plug-in and maybe get a copyright on the GUI that I would create for it… but the patent will probably be a “patent pending” for a while and who knows if I will be given the actual patents or not. It just makes good business sense if you are an innovator, to try to protect what are actually your own innovations, and complex processes are just like robots or advanced machines – automations… and even though no one would think of patenting putting ink on a piece of paper – if you were to develop your own complex method and machine which puts ink on paper (a printer) then certainly you should be able to patent and protect yourself from someone just trying to rip you off and sell your machine as their own. There might be an unlimited number of ways to achieve the end result – and that is why the other party should go about developing their own unique method and patent it if they want… whats left is only the competition between whose process is a better or higher quality technique. But there is nothing wrong with co-operation and learning from each other, companies do this all the time – it is called reverse-engineering.
So if a competitor wants to reverse-engineer my action-set and try applying some of the techniques to make their own product better – so be it. I cannot stop them, but if they turn around and try to sell a set of actions that is almost exactly the same as my own – that is where they did not use enough creativity and innovation on their re-build to actually qualify their work as being essentially different from my own process. If something new is actually good enough, it will eventually be copied in various ways into all future versions of the same technology or whatever it is that tries to achieve the same end-result. That’s why so many digital printers are basically the same, but different enough that the protection system has done it’s job – fostering diversity instead of a culture of uniformity.
Anyway, I believe it should be common sense that if a “process” or a “look and feel” is entirely too general or simple – it should not get a copyright or patent. Should someone be able to copyright a green circle? Stupid. But let’s say they design some unique elements that incorporate green circles into a logo which has a unique name and font etc… copyright or trademark the logo sure. Same goes for patents… should someone be able to patent the process of “dragging charcoal over a piece of paper to make a line” – of course not, stupid – it is entirely too simple and universal, but if they go and create a unique and innovative process which for example uses a plotter to hold a piece of charcoal in an x-y position and has pressure settings and automation etc etc…. I would think they should be able to get a patent as long as no one else has done the same thing already or very similar… it has to be complex and unique. I hope this brings a different perspective on this whole subject.
Please keep in mind that it is how innovative, complex, unique, etc… that something is which I think qualifies it for intellectual property protection, and there is a difference between what should be protected by a copyright and what might lend itself better to a patent protection instead.
Thanks!
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