Questions from a Beginner/Developing an Efficient Workflow

[andiballard]

Hi all - I'm new to the forums, although I've been following DPS for a while.

I've recently taken my photography from a personal hobby to something that I share with close family members and friends. I've learned the basics of shooting and editing. That said, I have a few (a lot) of questions on what you all like to do with your images post-editing. I've been doing some research on photography workflow, but really all I find are "behind the scenes" interviews with professional photographers, who almost always start out with OMG YOU HAVE TO SHOOT RAW and end with OMG DONT FORGET TO BACK UP TO 14 EXTERNAL HARDDRIVES. These are things that are said in almost every article, but people tend to focus so much on these that they end up not answering questions that I (and very possibly, many other beginners) want to know.

I am shooting with a Canon T1i, and have a MacBook Pro. I use iPhoto to keep all my pictures (I know a lot of people prefer aperture, but I've found that for the most part, iPhoto does alright) and also have CS5.

Here are the things that I can't seem to find a straight answer on:
1. When cropping photos in Photoshop, is there any way to actually scale down the parameters of the image? In iPhoto, it is possible to crop but use the original pixel sizes, but in Photoshop, they almost always want you to pick 8x10, etc. I'd like to resize them so that they are usable in most print sizes.

1.5 What is the best way to organize photos post-production? iPhoto really doesn't like to import my photoshop files. I guess that might be why people prefer Aperture!

2. Logos: I have designed a logo (just a simple graphic with my name) for some work I did recently with a band. They've asked for a copy of all the photos without my logo for their website. I don't really mind in this instance because they are friends of mine, but I am confused as to what the normal procedure is for this. For use on websites, it is the norm to post pictures without logos? For prints, do you remove the logo that you added for use on your website? I'm just unsure of logo etiquette in general, I guess.

3. What image hosting website is best for showing proofs to a client? I recently looked into Zenfolio, but I was wondering if there's a better/cheaper alternative out there.

4. Since I'm just beginning, I haven't been charging for my photos. If I decide to start charging for photos, what is a good starting point? I would mostly be doing work for acquaintances and friends, so I don't want to charge an exorbitant amount. I'd really prefer to charge a flat fee and just give them a digital copy of the photos they choose.

I have more questions, but since this is a pretty long post already, I'll end it here. Any help you could give me would be appreciated!! Thank you in advance.

[stauffer2]

Oh my goodness, this post is ME. I am on here searching for answers to the exact same questions! Kinda disappointed that no one has taken the time to reply to you. Did you find any websites or answers any other place?

[doctorjames]

No-one posted, because it was too long, and asked a million and one questions, and not in a particularly good way, and by a first time poster.

Put all of these things together and you pretty much make sure you are not going to get an answer

[stauffer2]

Well, everyone thats good at photography had to start somewhere and Im sure they had alot of questions too, just like we do. Its a learning experience. I feel this person deserved a response just like any other person on here. The time it took you to type your negative response could have been time used to actually help someone a little bit.

[Biomech]

I'll have a bash. Never saw this post the first time around.

1. When cropping photos in Photoshop, is there any way to actually scale down the parameters of the image? In iPhoto, it is possible to crop but use the original pixel sizes, but in Photoshop, they almost always want you to pick 8x10, etc. I'd like to resize them so that they are usable in most print sizes.

To be honest, I use Windows and Lightroom. In applications, you can crop various ways. I, personally in LR, just have a few preset ratios (4:3, 3:2, 16:9) that I select and then resize the crop for the right composition. What I think you need to look at is the "Constrain Aspect Ratio" options, which will keep the same shape as you resize the crop. I think in photoshop you do this by holding down Shift and dragging a corner of the crop marker.

Try not to get too confused with 8x10 and things like 3:2. Whilst 8x10 generally refers to an image print in inches, they are still aspect rations - 8 inches by 10 inches. 8x10 is a bit stupid because it isn't a common ratio. Compact cameras and many retail frames are 4:3, DSLR aspect is generally 3:2. 8x10 works out at 4:3.2

Again, in photoshop, when you resize an image look at the link icons and see how the affect the figures. If you link or "constrain" the proportions, they will keep the same shape.

1.5 What is the best way to organize photos post-production? iPhoto really doesn't like to import my photoshop files. I guess that might be why people prefer Aperture!

Again I use Lightroom, that does it all. I have a photo drive that contains folders which I import into LR.

2. Logos: I have designed a logo (just a simple graphic with my name) for some work I did recently with a band. They've asked for a copy of all the photos without my logo for their website. I don't really mind in this instance because they are friends of mine, but I am confused as to what the normal procedure is for this. For use on websites, it is the norm to post pictures without logos? For prints, do you remove the logo that you added for use on your website? I'm just unsure of logo etiquette in general, I guess.

Logos or "watermarks", generally ruin a photo. But that's kind of the idea, you want to ruin the photo enough so that people down steal it but not so bad that you can't see the image properly.

Bad Watermark

I like these watermarks

It's really a balance of complimenting the photo, putting people off stealing it and trying to not ruin the photo in the process.

As a rule, people pay/pay more for non watermarked images.

3. What image hosting website is best for showing proofs to a client? I recently looked into Zenfolio, but I was wondering if there's a better/cheaper alternative out there.

The best way to show proofs is to take them to them, maybe on a laptop or tablet (or a print sheet)
I've just signed up for Zenfolio for the shopping cart features. I'm hating the layout, but it does the job until I can fix it.

4. Since I'm just beginning, I haven't been charging for my photos. If I decide to start charging for photos, what is a good starting point? I would mostly be doing work for acquaintances and friends, so I don't want to charge an exorbitant amount. I'd really prefer to charge a flat fee and just give them a digital copy of the photos they choose.

You'll get a lot of opinions on this one. The gist being, don't work for free. A basic starting point is cost x 2.23. And that's ALL of your costs. The x2 gives you the profit to make it worth while, the .23 takes care of tax.

I'd like to point out here however, that 99% of people deem not charging for photos as working for free. That's bollox. There is no such thing as working for free unless you work "at cost". You either work for payment or you work AT A LOSS - because let's face it, if the client isn't paying you for those 5 or 10 12x8 prints, you are, it's your money coming out of your pocket that you are giving to them for the sake of it.

[andyw]

OK let's see if I can answer a few of these.

1. I actually have no idea what you mean with this one. In PS you can crop or resize to virtually any size and resolution you want.
if you want an 8x10 at 1200 you can or if you want it at a res of 25 you can.
pixel size is pixel size it remains the same.
All that is under - image - image size.

1.5 - entirely upto you if you mean how to catalogue them. The "best" way is the way which is best for YOU. Some want by date, some by assignment etc. If you keyword them properly then whether you use lightroom or imatch or anything other half decent programme then they are searchable on the iptc fields by keyword

2. There is no "etiquette" as such. But rarely if ever would a photographers logo be acceptable on any commercial work.If it is because you are worried about a credit then that should be sorted out with the client.


3. No idea. If I ever need to then I load up a secure page onto my own website for a client and use ftp (secured to that client) if they need to download.

4. aaaarrrrrggggghhhhh - not charging........... why not??? If your work is good enough for someone to want to use you or buy a prinit then you charge, end off.
What you charge comes down to your costs really. If you only charge the cost of the production of the print/cd then you are losing money.
If it was me and this was an extra to my normal job then I would figure out my hourly rate at my main job and charge that plus the cost of production as a minimum figure.
If you want to do it properly with a view to doing it full time then you have to take ALL your costs into account and then figure out what you need per job to make a profit.


I hope that when you are "just giving them a digital copy of the photos they choose" that you are also including a license which states what they can in fact be used for.
For instance the band shots. They want them on their website, fine. What if they are then "discovered" and those images are used on an album cover, in magazine articles, on gig posters etc?
NEVER "just give" anything. By all means give digital files ( I do for 99% of my clients) but they are given with specific conditions and a signed usage license.

The reason a lot of these type of questions are never addressed in interviews etc is that there really is no correct answer or way of doing any of it
Cataloguing, post production, image hosting etc etc are all down to personal choice.
Charging for work is down to a plethora of factors and it is impossible to tell a newbie that they should charge xx for yy.

What can be said on that is that the individual has to figure out their costs and then charge what they need to make a living.

[stauffer2]

Biomech, THANK YOU for taking the time to reply. It was VERY useful information.

I need to do more learning on the ratio stuff.. Do you have one file that will work no matter what size print the client orders??

[Biomech]

... additionally on the watermarks. If they're going on facebook, watermark them. People ALWAYS rip them for their profile pics etc. It's going to happen, so I do it for them. On their disc they get the full high res photos unwatermarked that take like 5 days to upload anywhere, I also - purposely - give them a "facebook" folder which are watermarked, I also upload the watermarked photos to my own facebook gallery for them - it takes all the hassle out of it for them which encourages them to use the photos that I prepared with the tags, meta data and watermarks that I chose.

Like I said, they're going to do it anyway, I just make it easy for them and in the process retain a lot more control.

[Biomech]

Biomech, THANK YOU for taking the time to reply. It was VERY useful information.

I need to do more learning on the ratio stuff.. Do you have one file that will work no matter what size print the client orders??

No Dramas.

Someone here is a legend with pixel/dpi/print conversions.
In a nutshell, a ratio is only a variable measurement 8x10 could be inches, millimeters, miles - but always the same shape. So it's probably easier to think about of the ratio as being the shape more than anything.

Printing, generally you might go for 300dpi (dots per inch). So we know that you want a photo printed 8inches by 10inches. If you have 300 dots/pixels in each inch you can work out what resolution the file needs to be:

300 x 8 = 2,400 pixels by
300 x 10 = 3,000 pixels

The more pixels the original file has, the bigger you can print it at the same dpi. I have a bookmark here somewhere that's good...

Image Resolution and Print Quality - How Image Resolution Affects Print Quality - Photoshop Tutorial

Have a read of that

[stauffer2]

Biomech, I just peeked at your webpage, you macro stuff is AMAZING! I just bought a macro lens this past week and cant wait to learn more!

On your full res photos, do you put your name on the bottom corner of your photos?