Why we say what we say . . .

[Jim Poor]

More appropriately, as I can't really speak for others, but why I say the things I say.

As I'm getting ready to head on vacation for our 20th anniversary, I've been reflecting on many things, one of them is my career. A big part of that career has been teaching and mentoring even before photography came around.

I've always been pretty much "what you see is what you get," very straight forward, very blunt, though I do stop short of saying things like "well, that's just stupid," even though that may be what I'm thinking.

Here's my philosophy. A smart person learns from their mistakes. A wise person learns from the mistakes of others. I hope to let others be wise in the areas I where I was only smart, and perhaps smart where I was just plain stupid.

When I rant about gear purchases before you've mastered the gear you have, it's from experience. Here's a post of mine from another forum years ago:

Should I sell my 400 2.8 to buy D2X?

I have this lens (not autofocus) and the 600mmF4.

I've held on to it by convincing myself I'll use it one day for sports or something that I need a slightly shorter, faster lens than the 600. I've had it for just about 8 months or so, but basically shelved it when the 600 came in*. I'm really wanting the D2X, but I'm not sure that parting with the lens is such a good idea, though for the life of me I can't figure why...

Thoughts?
Tks

P.S. It's a Nikon, USA model.

* I bought the 400, and then went into debt to get the 600 less than a month later! The 400 was a stupid, uninformed purchase. The 600 served me well for many years. I ended up getting the D2X and keeping the 400 for another few years, but NEVER used it again. Wasted money - and not the only example of it along the way.

How about image sales?

Another post, from the same time period on the same forum:

He wants to buy some images, now what?

Well, I had planned to do a lot more shooting before ever getting any $$ but the retail director of a national wildlife organization asked me if I would sell him some images today. He wants to make postcards to sell in giftshops.

That's all great, but I have no clue how to go forward from here. I asked him to E-mail me all his submission criteria for now.

I had really planned on spending the next year or so getting my photography up to speed, but now that this has come up, I don't know...

Any help would be appreciated. How much should I ask for? What kind of rights to the photo will they/I get/retain etc etc??

If you can think of something I didn't ask, be sure to chime in. My head is spinning a bit right now.

The answers I got were nice, soft congrats, but think about xyz. Yep, I made the sale, but the images were so bad I'm embarrassed to even THINK about approaching that organization again now.

Charging for what your work is worth.

My very first private sitting was for a lady who wanted portraits of her 18 Dogs. While there, we also shot three cats, two horses and the a couple dogs the lady was watching for her clients. She lives in a mansion on a couple hundred acres.

Tammy and I spent 8.5 hours shooting, not to mention the post work after.

My fee? $75.00! Yep, that was stupid. The client was nice and bought an 11x14, 8x10 and 5x7 of each animal plus an 11x14 of the group shot (yes, 18 dogs in a group shot outside. Care to guess how much post work and compositing went into that? It's tempting to think that the print sales made up for the low sitting fee, however, I didn't know what I was doing when it came to pricing prints either.

The grand total for the day was less than I would charge for the sitting fee for the same shoot today!



I only WISH there were a few folks around that would have talked to me then, the way I talk to folks on this forum now. My learning curve might have been a lot better, or I may have stomped my feet and pouted and complained about "the old school" guys being defensive, gruff, etc. At least I would have had the choice to listen or pout!

[candidrachel]

You just have to get it wrong a few times before you get it right! Its all part of the learning process It's a bit like finding the perfect partner - you have to go through a few duff ones before the right one comes along!

I can't get over the image of you trying to control all those 18 dogs! That must have tested your patience to the max.


Most people think I am mad, off the wall and just plain bonkers!


Congrats on the 20th anniversary and have a great holiday.

[SusanH1970]

Good post, Jim. I'm much newer to the photography business than you are, and I'm glad I've listened to the "rants of the curmudgeons", lol. It spared me from making some dire mistakes when first starting out. Granted, I have made a few mistakes (who hasn't?), but nothing so serious that it's really hurt me.

So, thanks for the advice you've given. I'd rather be told something bluntly that's going to help me rather than have sunshine and rainbows up the wazoo. I've never found your posts offensive in any way...just honest and helpful. It's the folks that don't hear what they want to hear (the aforementioned sunshine and rainbows) that get offended.

[Jim Poor]

Thanks.

Here's another from days gone by. This was in response to a question I had about why a consumer camera (D70) had higher resolution than the pro bodies at the time.

Note the last bit.

Jim, I was just blown away by my first pro camera, a Nikon FTN. 1969. In 71 I got my first job at a newspaper and soon the FE was my camera of choice. We all want what the big guys have but what works is what works.

Today I am still a working photographer and I have been through countless cameras to " GET THE JOB DONE"....
Herein lies the reason for the many different cameras out there now.

Each and every camera has a job to do and most try to use only one camera to do every job and it is not possible.

If you want to be a news or sports pro then you want the D1h or the D2H.

If you want to be a landscape pro, then the D1X. ( Works very good for wildlife also unless you are the speed freak kind of guy)

If you want to take great photographs, You have in the D70 a great little camera.

The thing I want to say is,
If you want to "LOOK" like a PRO buy a pro camera.
If you want to "BE" a PRO practice, read, practice, read, learn, read, practice.

Your photographs will make you a pro, NOT YOUR CAMERA.

[SusanH1970]

"The thing I want to say is,
If you want to "LOOK" like a PRO buy a pro camera.
If you want to "BE" a PRO practice, read, practice, read, learn, read, practice.

Your photographs will make you a pro, NOT YOUR CAMERA. "

LOVE this. Though I do want to upgrade to FF, I'm pretty happy with my XSi. Sure, it's entry level, but I've never had a client say "Gee, I bet the pictures you took of my kid would have been better if you had a better camera."

[milosh]

Good post Jim!
Makes me realise even more how lucky we youngsters are to have such helpful and experienced support here on DPS.

[jml79]

If you want to "LOOK" like a PRO buy a pro camera. If you want to "BE" a PRO practice, read, practice, read learn, read, practice.

I just slap on a portrait grip. It looks the part and I can pretend

[Photologyst]

I believe this applies to advice from experience people on anything in life.

Of course, some people will listen while others have to live and learn and some will never learn.

In every situation one is entitled to one mistake, after that, if you do it again—well.

[Biomech]

Originally Posted by jml79

I just slap on a portrait grip. It looks the part and I can pretend

That's exactly what I do :P As bad as it is, perception is important when on shoots.

Jim Poor, in relation to your original post, how can we tell what we are worth? I really struggle with this. Personally, I can find something wrong with every picture I take and constantly pick holes in them. For me "that" photo isn't worth "that" much because of "that".

However, friends, family and other people love some of my work - particularly the ones I hate. I don't mean to turn this into a critique thread, but: Do you think I'm worth £60/hour for events (includes PP)?

Some people tell me that people just won't pay that. However, in my day job I frequently sell an installation service for £60 that generally lasts 15-30mins.

[Jim Bryant]

Great posts Jim! I'd like to go one step further and say? My words are sort of a give a bitch slap in reality to those who want to get into photography with little or no experience in photography, equipment, business or marketing. It's a tuff world out there full of alligators and sharks and if you're not ready to test the waters, don't even try. I know I've chapped a lot of butts here at DPS, but I speak from years of experience of learning, experiencing, growing and watching others fail in this business.