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  • #16
    Originally posted by dakwegmo View Post
    You'd be surprised at how much money you can save. Even if you consider economies of scale, a PC manufacturer still has to charge you for all of the overhead that goes into assembling and marketing the systems, plus enough money on each unit to make a profit. Plus, you have the added benefit of having a system that is pretty much upgradeable indefinitely. It's rare that you have to upgrade an entire system at once. Do it incrementally, so you upgrade one or two pieces at a time and you can have a new computer every couple of years, but never have to fork over the entire cost of a new computer at once. Plus, you only have to replace stuff you already have (like optical drives and hard drives) when you need to. You're not buying new stuff you don't need just because you want to upgrade.
    I have to agree. I had my son sit down with me and we pieced out and assembled my computer just the way I wanted it for photography. I didn't have to spend money on all the extra junk that the big companies bundle into their packages. I have dual CDR/DVDR drives, three usb ports, SD and CF card readers. If/when I need to upgrade hard drives, no problem. Same with anything else. I saved hundreds by going this way.
    Kevin
    Canon EOS 60D, Canon EOS T3i, Canon A-1, Canon AE-1 Program, Various lenses
    http://500px.com/VeritasImageryNW/photos
    http://veritasimagerynw.smugmug.com/

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    • #17
      Copy Pasta...;

      I've just looked up the MPro Quad Core. Starting at $2,500 and it has
      3.2Ghz Quad Core CPU
      6GB RAM @ 1066mhz
      1TB Harddrive SATA drive 7200rpm
      1GB Ati Graphics Card
      1x DVD/CD only drive

      I built my own..

      4.2Ghz Quad Core (faster)
      16GB RAM @ 1866mhz (faster)
      256GB Solid State HardDrive (512 from apple is an extra $850)
      1TB SATA Drive 7200rpm
      2GB 660 NVidia graphics card
      1x BLURAY, DVD and CD. Writes and Reads all formats.
      H80 CPU liquid cooling system

      Plus, board, PSU, case etc, some lights, 120mm fans, fan filters AND a 4TB Western Digital Network Drive (NAS).

      All of that has cost me $2,400 (PC). Take off the NAS and it cost $1,900 (PC)
      Art: www.jamieorourke.co.uk
      Work: www.jamieorourkephotography.co.uk
      Sony a200 Sony a580, Canon 500D, Canon 550D, Canon 600D, Canon 600D

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      • #18
        Hey guys, I'm not saying you could not build up a super/high end performer CPU with all the bells and whistles exactly the way you want and still manage to save some money doing it. All this with the added benefit of not being able to find an off the shelf unit that'll come close to your custom built unit. I understand that. But if you look at an average roll your own mid tier performer, with a legit copy of Windows O/S, I would suspect your build cost would probably come in at $500 - $900 dollars depending on what motherboard, with what processor, how much DRAM, what graphics card, how much hard drive you want, etc. I would suspect you could pretty much duplicate that with some manufacturer's off the shelf unit. How do they do that??...simple economies of scale. That same Intel powered motherboard that you have to pay $225 dollars, but with their volume purchasing power it probably costs Dell or HP $75 bucks.
        Last edited by autofocus; 01-18-2013, 11:55 PM.
        Vince "...the law of unintended consequences, sometimes, you get a truly memorable photograph"
        Gear: Canon G2, Canon 20D, Nikon D300...bunch of lenses
        My Flickr
        www.montalbanophotography.com

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        • #19
          Originally posted by autofocus View Post
          How do they do that??...simple economies of scale. That same Intel powered motherboard that you have to pay $225 dollars, but with their volume purchasing power it probably costs Dell or HP $75 bucks.
          And then they jack you up on all the stuff you don't need. That's the difference. I was able to build a better, faster computer because I wasn't buying all the extra stuff that Dell or HP bundles in and charges you for.
          Kevin
          Canon EOS 60D, Canon EOS T3i, Canon A-1, Canon AE-1 Program, Various lenses
          http://500px.com/VeritasImageryNW/photos
          http://veritasimagerynw.smugmug.com/

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          • #20
            Originally posted by veritasimagery View Post
            And then they jack you up on all the stuff you don't need. That's the difference. I was able to build a better, faster computer because I wasn't buying all the extra stuff that Dell or HP bundles in and charges you for.
            Kevin, exactly what is the extra stuff that they make you buy? Is the extra stuff you are talking about optional..like an extended warranty, or a faster processor, or a better monitor? The last time I bought a system from HP or Dell any of the offered extras were optional, and you still could get the basic system that you wanted. The only companies that I know that bundle in more of the junk you don't want, but make you pay for it are the cable companies...oh, you want the History Channel?..you have to take the damn cartoon and Disney channels with it
            Vince "...the law of unintended consequences, sometimes, you get a truly memorable photograph"
            Gear: Canon G2, Canon 20D, Nikon D300...bunch of lenses
            My Flickr
            www.montalbanophotography.com

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            • #21
              Originally posted by autofocus View Post
              Kevin, exactly what is the extra stuff that they make you buy? Is the extra stuff you are talking about optional..like an extended warranty, or a faster processor, or a better monitor? The last time I bought a system from HP or Dell any of the offered extras were optional, and you still could get the basic system that you wanted. The only companies that I know that bundle in more of the junk you don't want, but make you pay for it are the cable companies...oh, you want the History Channel?..you have to take the damn cartoon and Disney channels with it
              Things like Microsquish Office (already had), PocketCloud Companion, and McAfee security (didn't need, use Avast). Also, the closest Dell laptop to mine costs $500 to start (no monitor and only one dvd drive). To bring it up to mine it hits closer to $800. Mine, all told, was right at $600. I already had a copy of Windows 7, at discount because my wife was in school at the time. I also was able to add the extra hard drive space by just adding my old drive to the new one. It helps when your son is an IT person. Also, remember that, though companies like Dell can mass purchase parts, they also have to pay workers to assemble them. I didn't.
              Kevin
              Canon EOS 60D, Canon EOS T3i, Canon A-1, Canon AE-1 Program, Various lenses
              http://500px.com/VeritasImageryNW/photos
              http://veritasimagerynw.smugmug.com/

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              • #22
                McAfee security
                I'm assuming this was one of those 90 day freebies that needs to be renewed and bought at the end of the trial period. You probably didn't pay for this at purchase time with the assumption it would be purchased after the trial period. BTW, I use Avast also..a very good anti virus program

                Also, the closest Dell laptop to mine costs $500 to start (no monitor and only one dvd drive).
                no monitor?..I'm confused, did you mean to say desktop?

                It helps when your son is an IT person
                . Always nice to have at least one friend or family member who would be considered a certified "geek"
                Also, remember that, though companies like Dell can mass purchase parts, they also have to pay workers to assemble them. I didn't
                Well, the individual sub-assembly components you buy are also assembled by workers who get paid, not to mention the value of your time and labor
                Vince "...the law of unintended consequences, sometimes, you get a truly memorable photograph"
                Gear: Canon G2, Canon 20D, Nikon D300...bunch of lenses
                My Flickr
                www.montalbanophotography.com

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by autofocus View Post
                  no monitor?..I'm confused, did you mean to say desktop?

                  . Always nice to have at least one friend or family member who would be considered a certified "geek"

                  Well, the individual sub-assembly components you buy are also assembled by workers who get paid, not to mention the value of your time and labor
                  Yeah, meant desktop. Oops.

                  My son has been self taught on all the stuff he does and it blows me away what he can. He wrote his own timer program when he was in 6th grade. I think at last count he had four computers in his room (just the ones that work). He has one that is the media server for the whole house, one that is the firewall, and the other two are just for himself. I came home a month ago, or so, and went in to see what he was doing and he had resurrected an old Apple IIe that he was given and had it talking to his laptop. He went to college just to have the certification and is now the main IT guy for the local college sub-campus.

                  As far as time and labor on the assembly it was all of a half hour at most.
                  Kevin
                  Canon EOS 60D, Canon EOS T3i, Canon A-1, Canon AE-1 Program, Various lenses
                  http://500px.com/VeritasImageryNW/photos
                  http://veritasimagerynw.smugmug.com/

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                  • #24
                    The problem with all the free trial crap they throw on the machine is it screws up performance. MS now offers a service at their retail stores where for $75 they will clean up your new system and install a clean copy of windows. So, if you really want a good retail system you actually have to pay another $75 to have it be the equivalent of clean out of the box.

                    Yes the big boys can buy components cheaper, how much is open for debate. But what do you think all the TV ads and print ads cost them and how do you think they pay for them -- by not passing those savings on to you.

                    Further those Dell and HP machines often times have proprietary multifunction boards. If you want to change something you end up with a mess as you have to change two or three components. They do stupid stuff like having a video card that also controls networking and the mouse. If you want a machine for anything but basic internet and word processing you are much better off building it to your own specs.
                    Nikon D800e, D300, D5000, NIKON GLASS 85mm F/1.8 D, 105mm f/2.8 Micro AF-S VR, 70-200 AF-S VR f/2.8, 28-300 AF-S VRII,10.5mm Fisheye, 24-70 AF-S f/2.8, TC-20E III AF-S, Sigma 12-24 HSM, Sigma 30mm f/1.4 HSM, Sigma 150-500 OS, 2 SB-600 Speedlights, SB-900 speedlight, 4 YN-622N transceivers, Manfrotto 190MF3 tripod & 322RC2 ball grip head. - NJ, USA
                    Flickr Photobucket
                    Ok to edit and repost my shots on DPS forums

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                    • #25
                      But what do you think all the TV ads and print ads cost them and how do you think they pay for them -- by not passing those savings on to you.
                      C'mon Howard, you of all people should know that companies are in business for one, and only one reason, and that is to make a profit for their owners or the stock holders. And those volumes they buy can actually influence the price you pay for one of those same components bought for your system. So, indirectly, you also benefit by the mass production volume being enjoyed by that component manufacturer, and that is then passed onto you.


                      Further those Dell and HP machines often times have proprietary multifunction boards. If you want to change something you end up with a mess as you have to change two or three components. They do stupid stuff like having a video card that also controls networking and the mouse
                      . I agree, highly integrated boards can be a problem. One element of the board fails and the whole board needs to be replaced. A lot easier when you have to replace a proprietary function board for $25 bucks instead of a motherboard
                      Vince "...the law of unintended consequences, sometimes, you get a truly memorable photograph"
                      Gear: Canon G2, Canon 20D, Nikon D300...bunch of lenses
                      My Flickr
                      www.montalbanophotography.com

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I agree that we all benefit from components being made in high volume. I just know from experience I can build a better system for less money than one I can buy from the big computer outfits.
                        Nikon D800e, D300, D5000, NIKON GLASS 85mm F/1.8 D, 105mm f/2.8 Micro AF-S VR, 70-200 AF-S VR f/2.8, 28-300 AF-S VRII,10.5mm Fisheye, 24-70 AF-S f/2.8, TC-20E III AF-S, Sigma 12-24 HSM, Sigma 30mm f/1.4 HSM, Sigma 150-500 OS, 2 SB-600 Speedlights, SB-900 speedlight, 4 YN-622N transceivers, Manfrotto 190MF3 tripod & 322RC2 ball grip head. - NJ, USA
                        Flickr Photobucket
                        Ok to edit and repost my shots on DPS forums

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by kirbinster View Post
                          I agree that we all benefit from components being made in high volume. I just know from experience I can build a better system for less money than one I can buy from the big computer outfits.
                          I agree Howard, from the sound of that tower you built, you've definitely proven that. I think what's even the same, or more important is that you get a system exactly the way YOU want it. I have a friend who was an FAE (field applications engineer) for a company we both worked at, and he had a side business of making and selling PC's. (before I retired, I had spent 40 years in the electronic component industry, and also enjoyed ten years in sales with Intel) When it was time for me to upgrade to a new PC, I turned to my friend to custom build my new one, so I can understand the value of a custom built PC
                          Vince "...the law of unintended consequences, sometimes, you get a truly memorable photograph"
                          Gear: Canon G2, Canon 20D, Nikon D300...bunch of lenses
                          My Flickr
                          www.montalbanophotography.com

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                          • #28
                            Back to the original topic...

                            I like the logo. It looks really nice and neat-o. Good job!

                            I've also noticed that CD/DVD drives appear to be fading away for regular consumer-grade computer equipment.

                            Until the day comes that nothing comes with a CD/DVD drive I'd offer customers a choice of the USB drive or a disk.

                            The really neat thing with the USB drive is that so many people have those electronic picture frames that they could just plug this right into so they could have a continually changing picture frame as it cycles through all the photos on the drive.

                            Danny
                            Sony a77 (x2), Tamron 17-50/2.8 and 70-200/2.8 lenses, Rokinon 85mm/1.4 fully manual lens, and some neat-o accessories to make practicing photography a lot of fun. Someday I might even get good at it!
                            My Flickr Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/dannyoo

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by autofocus View Post
                              I don't image you can save any money by doing that when you consider what the cost of the separate components are that has to go into the build of a PC, as in:
                              a chassis/enclosure, a mother board with processor(s) fans, I/O boards, graphics board, drives and drive controller board, memory, operating system, power supply, keyboard, etc. Is this more of a hobby for you, or do you really want a custom system that might be hard to duplicate from an off the shelf supplier?
                              And I know that you get a highly integrated mother board that has much of those control functions bundled in, but if any of those functions fail you're most probably faced with chucking the mother board for a replacement.
                              Its not about saving money... It's about getting exactly what you want and not settling for less. It used to be about saving money, I built my first pc in 1994. Back then you had to hand set com port and interrupt controls with micro switches on each card (sound, game controller, video...), and chose switch settings for processor and memory speed and voltage. Now you just plug stuff in.

                              Sure, anyone Can go buy a $400 pc (or a $4000 pc)... But if you truly want to understand it and feel proud of it, you have to build it. There's nothing like pushing that switch the first time and seeing the motherboard logo pop up, and seeing a successful POST test (no scary series of beeps). You choose the exact set of components you want, pick out the case, wire it up...and you don't spend forty minutes uninstalling all the BS Shovelware that PC companies love to dump on your new hard drive.

                              I can never understand those people who only want to buy off the shelf PCs or worse, laptops. Where's the fun in that? My wife wants an iMac, and I'm going to get her one for anniversary, but I've got my list in my head, and I'm going to rebuild my pc. Besides, I've got all my custom stuff in my PC. Where can you buy a PC with a custom USB-To-Serial XM cable? My PC will record my XM radio songs right to MP3's... I don't feel bad drilling holes in my front panels for custom lights and switches.

                              I love building PCs. They're just expensive.
                              -----------------------------------------
                              Canon T1i 18-35mm, 50mm, 28mm, 100-500mm and some other stuff.
                              Please don't read my blog!

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by DannyOO View Post
                                Back to the original topic...

                                I like the logo. It looks really nice and neat-o. Good job!

                                Danny
                                Thank you Danny!!
                                Rich Spears www.rspearsphotography.com
                                Blog | Flickr | Zenfolio
                                Nikon D3s, D700, Nikon 24-70mm f/2.8, 70-200mm f/2.8, 50mm f/1.8, 85mm 1.8

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