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Rear/Second Curtain sync with Canon EOS XTI and TT560/YN-560

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  • Rear/Second Curtain sync with Canon EOS XTI and TT560/YN-560

    I tried searching the forum and google with no luck ; hopefully its not my searching skills.

    I have an Canon XTi rebel and looking to get into flash photography and was going to purchase the TT-560 off of amazon until yesterday when i heard of rear sync photography

    I know how to enable it for the pop up flash (custom fn 9)

    I am unable to find anything on this subject with external flashes and this camera body

    Is it possible with the XTi and external flash? Is the rear/sync depending on the flash or the camera body?

  • #2
    All Canon bodies in the (current) EOS line support 2nd curtain sync. (I'm pretty sure this stands as an absolute, but someone like Inkista would know of the odd exceptions.)

    There are variations in how it gets enabled among different bodies. Sometimes, it's activated on the flash, sometimes in the body's menus. There are also variations in various modes when it's not supported. (For example, you can't enable 2nd curtain sync when using wireless shooting, which baffles me.) Also, 2nd curtain sync is not available with High-Speed-Sync, which completely makes sense. And, 2nd curtain sync is useless with shutter speeds that are close to the X-sync speed.

    Regarding off-brand flash units, the body expects to exchange quite a bit of data with the flash. We've already established that the camera makes decisions about when/if 2nd curtain flash will be allowed. I'm not familiar with the TT-560 so I can't speak to its compatibility. The further away you get from mainstream, the more likely you'll lose various capabilites.

    For what it's worth, I have a *very* old EX-380 flash (from film days) that worked flawlessly with the very new T3i body (including 2nd curtain sync). Canon does try hard to maintain compatibility within *their* products.
    Dave.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by dlong604 View Post
      I know how to enable it for the pop up flash (custom fn 9)
      That custom function enables 2nd curtain sync whether the flash is the built-in or an "external" unit mounted in the hot shoe.
      Dave.
      Some pictures... (500px)

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      • #4
        Originally posted by dlong604 View Post
        I tried searching the forum and google with no luck ; hopefully its not my searching skills.

        I have an Canon XTi rebel and looking to get into flash photography and was going to purchase the TT-560 off of amazon until yesterday when i heard of rear sync photography

        I know how to enable it for the pop up flash (custom fn 9)

        I am unable to find anything on this subject with external flashes and this camera body

        Is it possible with the XTi and external flash? Is the rear/sync depending on the flash or the camera body?
        Typically, rear curtain sync is a TTL feature -- so you are going to need a flash made for the Canon flash system. Not necessarily Canon brand, but made for Canon.

        Is the YN-560 that you mention, the Yongnuo Yn-560? I have the Yn-560ii and it isn't TTL compatible. Its fully manual.
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        • #5
          Really, there are two sets of considerations. First, there's flash metering, which includes TTL and E-TTL (and actually, A-TTL for those that have been around long enough!). The metering definitely works better with something that's fully Canon compatible. Canon is the only brand that I've ever used. I know that there are cheaper ways to go, but I've never had a compatibility problem (especially on-site for something important).

          The second consideration is sync and timing (which is actually different than metering). Sync includes 1st curtain, 2nd curtain and High-Speed Sync. Again, compatibility is a separate and important issue. (I still choose Canon.)

          Originally posted by i speak in math View Post
          ... not necessarily Canon brand, but made for Canon. ... the Yn-560ii isn't TTL compatible. Its fully manual.
          And even more importantly, it isn't going to be E-TTL compatible (emphasis on the *E*). In highly controlled conditions where the camera and flash unit(s) are stationary (on stands/tripod) and the subject is stationary, manual can be useful for someone that's already proficient in flash exposures. But, if anything is moving (changing distances between any of the above items), you're going to want some automation to help out. Otherwise, flash will become a frustrating burden and you'll regret it.

          I would definitely recommend picking up (a second hand?) EX series unit (380 is okay, 270 is a bit better, or 430 is definitely better). The 430-EX2 will give you growth into a future body. Even new, the 430 can be found for a price in the $200's ($270-ish?), which defines the upper end of price. You'll spend more but you won't walk away in the first 30 days out of frustration.

          I would heed "I speak math's" advice and beware of manual
          Last edited by dasmith232; 11-07-2012, 09:40 PM.
          Dave.
          Some pictures... (500px)

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          • #6
            Apparently rear-curtain sync has to be set in the camera, and Canons only allow you to set it if a TTL flash is connected. Since the YN560 is manual-only, it doesn't do rear-curtain. (I just checked with my YN560 and couldn't get it to do rear-curtain.) However, the YN468 is an E-TTL flash and does to rear-curtain sync. (I just checked with my YN468.)

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            • #7
              Thanks Everyone.

              I haven't used an external flash before; i had an old (20+ years) pentax flash on the XTi but it did not do the rear sync.

              I will most likely pick up the TT-560 ( i think it is the same as the YN-560); the review are too good for me not to get it.

              Ill look into the YN468 too; having two flashes isn't a bad idea

              As time goes on and the more i get into photography ill buck up and get the canon flashes; maybe when i upgrade the body.

              Once again, thanks everyone

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              • #8
                Originally posted by dlong604 View Post
                I will most likely pick up the TT-560 ( i think it is the same as the YN-560); the review are too good for me not to get it.
                Just to be clear:

                I don't recommend that flash for you.

                It's a perfectly fine unit for someone that is ready to do manual flash exposures. You might be there and therefore should disregard the advice above. However, for someone that's new to flash and just "wants" it to work, manual is not going to serve you well.

                I get it that the 560 is only about $50. The reviews are going to be good because it performs well as a manual flash. The 468 is another $40 on top of that ($90). The Canon 270EXII is yet another $60 ($150) but now has full compatibility and support for wireless communications for any Canon body in the future.

                If you want Yongnuo, I suggest going with the 468 unit.
                Dave.
                Some pictures... (500px)

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                • #9
                  +1. Unless you know you're going Strobist and manual-only, you want to start with a unit that has TTL, and you might just want to think about saving up the pennies for an OEM flash (used, the prices are better) just for features, build quality, consistency, and future compatibility.

                  Yongnuos are cheap for a reason. And returning a bum unit may require mailing it back to Hong Kong. If you are going to get one, do it from a reputable dealer with a return policy. There are quite a few eBay scammers bottom-feeding off of Yongnuo. I'd highly recommend using either their official store on eBay, or the Hong Kong seller, Photogadget, if you can't get YN gear directly from Amazon.

                  I have a YN-560. I love it to bits. But it's my fourth speedlight.

                  If you have to get a Yongnuo, I'd actually push for the YN-565EX or YN-568EX, over any of the YN-4xx units, because LCDs are easier to use than idiot lights, and when you upgrade your camera body in the future, both of those can be wireless slaves to a Canon master unit. Your T2i doesn't have one, but the T3i, T4i, 60D, and 7D do. One assumes all future Canon camera bodies with a pop-up flash are going to have one. Other 3rd party units to look at are the Nissin Di-866 and Di-622, and the Metz AF-58 and AF-50.

                  For a first flash, you want something with tilt/swivel, manual and TTL power control. TTL on a flash is like having Av mode on the camera. If you plan on using the flash on-camera in run'n'gun event situations, you want TTL. The all-manual cheapies are better as 2nd/3rd/4th flash alternatives when you go cheap-ass Strobist. And even then, this may be a thing of the past, given how cheap TTL radio triggers are becoming.

                  Here's an old article I wrote on flash features and why you might want them, as well as a few of the more common purchase options out there. A flash, like a lens, will stay with you through body upgrades. You may want to consider that it's worth the cost to spend money on a flash the way you would on a lens.
                  I shoot with a Canon 5DmkII, 50D, and S90, and Pansonic GX-7. flickr stream and equipment list

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by inkista View Post
                    I'd actually push for the YN-565EX or YN-568EX, over any of the YN-4xx units, because LCDs are easier to use than idiot lights
                    The 468 (II) has an LCD, no? At least, it certainly looks like mine does. It won't do wireless TTL, though, as you indicate.

                    The problem with paying ~$40 more for a Canon 270EX over a TTL-ready Yongnuo is that the 270 has tilt, but no swivel, and has no off-camera manual controls. (So, since your camera has no built-in wireless flash controller, the 270 cannot reasonably be used off-camera.) Now, it does make sense to get a high-end Canon flash over a TTL Yongnuo, but now you're talking about completely different price points.

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                    • #11
                      After reading what TTL is i think i will have to get the YN-468 rather than the 560

                      This is just the first flash unit i will be getting- hopefully i like it. now for a tripod

                      Thanks for the articles and tips everyone

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                      • #12
                        Update:

                        I got the YN-468ii and i did some inital tests and i cant get the 2nd sync to work when it is mounted on the hot shoe.

                        The first flash will fire but not the second. If i put it in S1 mode and hold the flash it will fire. This is the only hack i can think of

                        I am still looking though, I am going to check out CHDK to see if that will help.

                        Hopefully im not missing a setting. I put the flash in TTL, M, Multi and S1 and S2 modes with no luck.

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                        • #13
                          Put the flash in TTL mode. Fire a test shot (without rear-curtain sync). Do you get something reasonably well-exposed? If not, the TTL pins may not be making solid contact. (When you half-press the shutter, it will also update the focal length and f-number on the flash's display. If it doesn't do that, the TTL communication may not be working.) If TTL is working, try holding down the mode button on the flash and press the right-arrow button (>>). That should turn on rear-curtain sync. There's an icon for it on the flash's screen.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jpowers View Post
                            Put the flash in TTL mode. Fire a test shot (without rear-curtain sync). Do you get something reasonably well-exposed? If not, the TTL pins may not be making solid contact. (When you half-press the shutter, it will also update the focal length and f-number on the flash's display. If it doesn't do that, the TTL communication may not be working.) If TTL is working, try holding down the mode button on the flash and press the right-arrow button (>>). That should turn on rear-curtain sync. There's an icon for it on the flash's screen.
                            Thanks a lot. I wonder why i couldnt find it in the manual at all hopefully i didnt miss it

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                            • #15
                              The rear-curtain option should also be in the camera's menu, but I find the on-flash control to be easier to access.

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