Gray Card Question

[autofocus]

I recently purchased a Lastolite EZYBalance collapsible gray card, and although I have a pretty good understanding of how to use it outdoors with only available light my question is how to use it in available light outdoors in conjunction with fill flash? To set up your custom white balance in camera, do you take a reading off it while also firing your flash? I'm assuming you do, but want confirmation on it from those using gray cards in like circumstances. Thanks in advance.

[Vagebond]

I can't say anything about outdoors, but indoors with mixed flourescent and tungsten lighting I do take the reading including fill flash. It makes a huge difference. The difference may be smaller outdoors, but I suspect there is a difference.

[LeeR]

I wouldn't think a gray card would be necessary when using a flash as we know that the falsh is pretty close to daylight; about 5600 degrees if I remember correctly. There are portrait situations where you use the sunset as a back drop but even then, leaving the camera set for daylight and letting the sunset go deep orange is not a bad thing.I am sure there are situations when you might be in a mixed light situation with flourescents or incandescents but I would think those would be rare.

[autofocus]

Hey thanks Vagebond and Lee for your inputs. My concern is when we shoot (my wife and I) on a job outdoors we are always dealing with changes in the light...filtered bright sunlight through a scrim, cloudy, overcast, shade, etc, and sometimes fill flash...(sometimes all of those during one job)...each scenario might need a different custom white balance, and a pain in the butt to say the least!

[sk66]

WB (color) has little to do with exposure (flash). If you have the color set apropriate for the primary/overall light source, then the grey card should be fine regardless....
Or are you using it to set a "custom WB"? If that is the case, you will need to set it for every signficantly different situation..

Can I recommend RAW?

[autofocus]

Originally Posted by sk66

WB (color) has little to do with exposure (flash). If you have the color set apropriate for the primary/overall light source, then the grey card should be fine regardless....
Or are you using it to set a "custom WB"? If that is the case, you will need to set it for every signficantly different situation..

Can I recommend RAW?

Thanks again...first off, for customer work, we do shoot RAW. As I noted above, our typical outdoor shooting environment varies greatly, and therefore, changes in the "color" of light will also vary. I'm thinking that setting a custom white balance in camera for each of those times might not be the best way to go. Probably a better option may be to shoot a reference shot of the gray card in each of the different lighting conditions first, and use that shot to balance the light for each of the subsequent exposures in RAW.
What I'm still not sure of is what happens when you set a custom white balance in camera to say 8000K, and without changing that you pop on your flash which is biased around 5500K...what's the end result in that image of doing that?? Will the cooler light of the flash take precedence, or will the warmer 8000K take precedence?...or am I'm just going nuts over this??

[sk66]

Originally Posted by auto-focus

What I'm still not sure of is what happens when you set a custom white balance in camera to say 8000K, and without changing that you pop on your flash which is biased around 5500K...what's the end result in that image of doing that?? Will the cooler light of the flash take precedence, or will the warmer 8000K take precedence?...or am I'm just going nuts over this??

The 8000k will be applied. Think of WB as a "color filter" for the sensor (instead of for the lens or flash).

[autofocus]

Originally Posted by sk66

The 8000k will be applied. Think of WB as a "color filter" for the sensor (instead of for the lens or flash).

Thanks again SK

[scootermcq]

It will also depend on how much ambient is allowed in with shutter speed or if you are exposing for flash only. I have found gelling the flash to match ambient light and setting the camera wb to the appropriate setting gives me a white balance that I am happier with then tyring to set a custom white balance with 2 different light sources (ambient & flash)

[sk66]

Originally Posted by scootermcq

It will also depend on how much ambient is allowed in with shutter speed or if you are exposing for flash only. I have found gelling the flash to match ambient light and setting the camera wb to the appropriate setting gives me a white balance that I am happier with then tyring to set a custom white balance with 2 different light sources (ambient & flash)

You will never completely balance multiple light temps.....You can get an in between and get closer in post, but it seldom ever works well....Better to balance for primary light source and accept the discoloration (i.e. it's easier to adjust for just one "off color" in post than the resulting 2)...3 light temps is impossible (I've run into this w/ tungsten fluorescent and sodium halide in one shot...)