Talk about a right grab!

[ednorm]

I use Flickr to post images to get them online for places such as our beloved DPS forums, I seen this group in the "Groups we've noticed bar" on my homepage called Canon Imagination. Its a group for users of all levels to showcase their imagination to other Canon users, Sounds pretty neat, show your images to other Canon owners and get feedback and maybe a comment or two. I decided to join the group and clicked on the join me button and came across this page with license you have to agree too before joining. http://www.flickr.com/groups_join.gne?id=1588031@N24

This is an image and rights grab if I ever saw one, and they are open and honest about it and have over 2500 members that give away all rights to their images with only the promise of attribution if Canon decides to use your print.
This is the license part.
You hereby grant Canon and its affiliates (“Canon”) a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free license to use, copy, publicly display, publicly perform, publish or distribute any still or motion images (“Images”) or any messages, comments, text, data, audio or graphics (“Content”) that you post or submit to the Group; provided, however, that Canon’s license to such Images and Content is limited solely to its use in connection with the Group or its promotion of the Group, in any online media, and specifically includes use throughout the canon.usa.com domain. Canon will attribute credit to you, using your Flickr ID, as the owner of any Image used by Canon pursuant to these Rules. Furthermore, “Images” and “Content” specifically excludes any still or motion images, messages, comments, text, data, audio or graphics that you post or submit to the Group after [insert date] or that you remove from the Group.

Odd that anyone would agree to this, what do you think?

ed

[TNH]

Originally Posted by ednorm

I use Flickr to post images to get them online for places such as our beloved DPS forums, I seen this group in the "Groups we've noticed bar" on my homepage called Canon Imagination. Its a group for users of all levels to showcase their imagination to other Canon users, Sounds pretty neat, show your images to other Canon owners and get feedback and maybe a comment or two. I decided to join the group and clicked on the join me button and came across this page with license you have to agree too before joining. http://www.flickr.com/groups_join.gne?id=1588031@N24

This is an image and rights grab if I ever saw one, and they are open and honest about it and have over 2500 members that give away all rights to their images with only the promise of attribution if Canon decides to use your print.
This is the license part.
You hereby grant Canon and its affiliates (“Canon”) a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free license to use, copy, publicly display, publicly perform, publish or distribute any still or motion images (“Images”) or any messages, comments, text, data, audio or graphics (“Content”) that you post or submit to the Group; provided, however, that Canon’s license to such Images and Content is limited solely to its use in connection with the Group or its promotion of the Group, in any online media, and specifically includes use throughout the canon.usa.com domain. Canon will attribute credit to you, using your Flickr ID, as the owner of any Image used by Canon pursuant to these Rules. Furthermore, “Images” and “Content” specifically excludes any still or motion images, messages, comments, text, data, audio or graphics that you post or submit to the Group after [insert date] or that you remove from the Group.

Odd that anyone would agree to this, what do you think?

ed

That's just not right... Even if I had a Canon camera, I wouldn't join that group. I don't want Canon to 'use, copy, publicly display, publicly perform, publish or distribute' my photos without asking me. Maybe that's just me...

At least they say that they give you the credit for it, with your Flickr name. But still.

Yes, that's odd that anyone would agree to that. I wonder how many people actually read that page before joining. Most of them probably just scrolled down the page and clicked on the 'I agree' button, without even glancing at the fine print. "Oh, it can't be that important... it would take forever to read all that anyway." they're thinking.

[UlpilotSC]

Doesn't sound like a true rights grab, like the dominos or Krispy Kreme competition.

You are just agreeing to let them post or publish your images. You still have the rights to sell them to others, use them yourself, etc.

It sounds like they are just looking for good pictures to showcase what their hardware will do. i.e. "look at these great pictures taken by Canon camera users!", in order to convince the ignorant masses "hey if I buy that 60D I can take photos like that!"

How else are most people ever going to get their pictures in a canon ad? Most likely never. I might think about it, but since flickr is owned by yahoo.... No way.

[andyw]

That is nowhere near a "rights grab".
That is the same sort of terms that virtually all forums, sharing sites etc use and effectively have to use to be able to display your images.

The usage is limited as per this bit " that Canon’s license to such Images and Content is limited solely to its use in connection with the Group or its promotion of the Group, in any online media,"

If they want to use for anything outside of that use then one of the other clauses states they must have your express permission.

This sort of thing is more of a rights grab (name deleted to protect the guilty)
“By entering the competition, even if you do not win, you are agreeing that your images can be used on Cheapskate inc. promotional materials and those organisations who are part of the Cheapskate inc.”

In other words, ALL images entered can be used for advertising or the like by Cheapskate inc. without having to compensate or even ask you.

Or this one which is a classic rights grab by a media group regarding commissioned works.
"By signing and returning this agreement to us, you irrevocably and unconditionally assign to us in perpetuity by way of present assignment of present and future copyright, the entire copyrights and all other rights and title of any kind in the Commissioned Works throughout the world (including any amendments and extensions to that copyright). You hereby irrevocably waive any and all moral rights you have in the Commissioned Works.'

[Shawn7656]

Originally Posted by UlpilotSC

I might think about it, but since flickr is owned by yahoo.... No way.

May I ask why this changes things?

[Jim Poor]

It's not a rights grab at all because of this statement that you apparently overlooked:

. . .provided, however, that Canon’s license to such Images and Content is limited solely to its use in connection with the Group

[sk66]

"and specifically includes the use throughout the Canon.usa.com domain"

That's the grab....
This is not a "canon group" hosted by canon, it's a flickr group hosted by flickr. Canon doesn't need any rights granted for this. Additionally, they are not limiting their rights to use on the group site, but rather to "in connection with the group"....that can mean almost anything.

[Sime]

Originally Posted by sk66

"and specifically includes the use throughout the Canon.usa.com domain"

That's the grab....
This is not a "canon group" hosted by canon, it's a flickr group hosted by flickr. Canon doesn't need any rights granted for this. Additionally, they are not limiting their rights to use on the group site, but rather to "in connection with the group"....that can mean almost anything.

The group is an extension of the promotion being run by Canon USA, not the other way around - they're using Flickr as a means to an end. They need your distribution rights so that when you 'win big' and they post your entry / name / details on their website - canon.com.

It's so standard on almost every competition / promotion today, especially run out of the copyright litigation heavy US of A (I work for a US based company and run competitions often, I see this first hand, multiple times a year)

Canon couldn't care less about the images they receive from an ownership point of view - think about it... they have access to some of the best photographers in the world... All they want is for you, Joe, Mary and her mate Sally to buy a new Canon G1x....

Nothing sinister

Hope that helps.

[CapnJack]

Originally Posted by TNH

That's just not right... Even if I had a Canon camera, I wouldn't join that group. I don't want Canon to 'use, copy, publicly display, publicly perform, publish or distribute' my photos without asking me. Maybe that's just me...

At least they say that they give you the credit for it, with your Flickr name. But still.

Yes, that's odd that anyone would agree to that. I wonder how many people actually read that page before joining. Most of them probably just scrolled down the page and clicked on the 'I agree' button, without even glancing at the fine print. "Oh, it can't be that important... it would take forever to read all that anyway." they're thinking.

Actually, they did ask- in that you read and click "agree".

I agree with your assessment that many (perhaps most) people overlook that agreement.

The lesson is to read the fine print and don't get rushed into signing anything. This happens off-line as well as on-line, and you'll be amazed later in your life what companies will try in business contracts.

[ednorm]

Originally Posted by Jim Poor

It's not a rights grab at all because of this statement that you apparently overlooked:

Mr Poor, what you posted was followed by this,
and specifically includes use throughout the canon.usa.com domain. Canon will attribute credit to you, using your Flickr ID, as the owner of any Image used by Canon pursuant to these Rules. Furthermore,
By the way, thats the Canon site, not Canons Flickr page.
ed