New Digital camera question

[orian_m42]

Hi all could anyone point me in the right direction Im a beginer and i just dont know enought to go to a DSLR but i would like a camera i could use to begin learing shutter speed,iso, white balance, ect.
I have a 3MP sony that im just not happy with so ive been looking at a new camera and ive found the Canon power shot 8MP S5 IS would this be a good starter to get me up to speed for DSLR`s

[smc1377]

Just my opinion, but if you want to work towards a DSLR and you're going to buy a DSLR-type of camera to prepare yourself for a DSLR, why not just buy a DSLR?

Seems like the camera you're looking at buying isn't that much cheaper than an entry model DSLR or a used older but better DSLR. That way, as your interest grows and you find yourself buying lenses or flashes, at least they'll be compatible with future DSLR's as you keep upgrading.

I would venture to guess that a lot of us really actually learned how to properly use all those manual settings once we actually got a DSLR even if our advanced point and shoots had manual controls.

If you could afford the extra difference between the S5 IS and an entry model DSLR like a Rebel XT, it might be worth it since you seem to want to venture into the DSLR realm sooner or later.

[Major_Small]

I agree with smc1377 - Before jumping into an SLR, the most manual thing I'd ever done with a camera was play with the little light slider thing on my poloroid camera. I didn't even know how to load 35mm film until they showed us like a week into the photography class. But my first camera was a Vivitar V4000 (http://www.amazon.com/Vivitar-V-4000-SLR-Camera-35-70mm/dp/B00004RID2), and that camera is fully manual - doesn't have so much as an on-camera flash. In retrospect, I'm happy I started out with that, because it forced me to learn.

I only bought one lens before I realized I didn't want to be stuck with a Pentax-K mount, and upgraded to a Rebel GII (literally weeks after it was made available to the public). Luckily, it was a cheap 500mm mirror that required a T-mount adapter, so I can still use it on my canons :)

But seriously. Go out and pick up an XTi. You'll be happy you did. It's got more than enough manual to give you lots of room to grow into, and it's still got the auto mode you can fall back to if you just want some quick snapshots. Plus, if/when you do decide you want a better body, most of the lenses and things you buy for the XTi will work on the new body (assuming you stick with canon). A lot of people are apprehensive about making the 'jump' to an SLR. With today's SLRs, however, that 'jump' is more like leisurely stroll across the crosswalk. Just remember that even an entry-level SLR like the XTi can be as manual or as automatic as you want it to be.

Throw it on manual, and you're adjusting many of the same things the pros are adjusting. Throw it on auto, and it's essentially a point and shoot :)

[inkista]

I'm with everybody else. If what you really want is a dSLR, then get a dSLR.

The S5IS is a terrific P&S camera, but it will give you some unrealistic expectations of a dSLR. It's not an upgrade step to a dSLR, it's a different sort of tool altogether. The 12x zoom, macro, and IS of the S5 would be exceedingly expensive to "duplicate" on the dSLR side, and would probably require at least three lenses.

You need to stop looking at a dSLR as the top rung on the ladder of digital cameras. It's a different kind of beast altogether from a P&S. If you make the leap (or cross that walk), you're not so much upgrading as doing a paradigm shift. You're moving from the world of the Swiss Army knife to that of the Craftsman toolbox.

My only advice would be to wait until February if you can. PMA is right around the corner, and all the new products are about to be announced in three or four weeks. No point in getting an XTi now, if it's just going to be replaced with a newer model. Even if you decide not to get the newer one, the XTi might get an even lower pricetag.

[Major_Small]

oh wow I completely forgot about PMA... goes to show how much I've relied on trade magazines as a source of information in the past :( In that case take inkista's advice and try to hold off until it passes and watch the market then. This year it runs from January 31 to February 02.

Actually, looking at the PMA blog, there are mumblings that there will actually be a replacement for the XTi on the table this year: http://www.photographybay.com/2007/12/16/canon-to-announce-next-dslr-on-january-24/

[inkista]

Yeah, given that the dRebel family has been refreshed like clockwork every 18 months, and it was August 2006 that the XTi got announced, it seems highly likely that a replacement will be announced at PMA. Combine that with the fact that the current Canon instant rebate ends Jan 13th, and the blow-out prices the XTi's had recently, and it makes a compelling case.

Still IMNSHO, nothing's certain until the press release actually shows up on dpreview. :) When I went to a local small camera show, the Canon rep there swore up, down, and backwards that the 5D wasn't going to be replaced any time soon. And the 5D is older than the XTi.

[Major_Small]

I know this is off-topic, but I gotta ask, ink, are all Nikon reps egotistical jerks that think their product line is the only one in existence, or is that localized to this area? I've seen about four, and all of them are a bit elitist...

[PHugger]

Unfortunately there are fanboys who manage to ruin just about anything....... )c8
The good news is that this will force you to learn without their 'help'. You can't really go far wrong with any of the major brands and they are all roughly equivalent. Zero in on the lens systems. You will be 'stuck' with them for a long time. Here are my basic rules for anyone considering the purchase of a digital camera -
Your perfect camera isn’t necessarily mine (there is no perfect camera)
Larger image sensors have less noise than smaller image sensors
Image sensors with lower pixel density have less noise than those with higher densities
Today’s best efforts still aren’t perfect
Today’s less than perfect options are better than yesterday’s
Lenses are more important than features
Your perfect lens isn’t necessarily mine (there is no perfect lens )
The bitter taste of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten
A longer optical zoom will always trump mega pixels
You almost always have to sacrifice something to gain in a different area
Gadgets and features can never replace the photographer’s eye
Most of all remember that they are just tools and the point is you improve by taking lots of pictures, not by becoming a fanboy……. (c8


PCH

[inkista]

I know this is off-topic, but I gotta ask, ink, are all Nikon reps egotistical jerks that think their product line is the only one in existence, or is that localized to this area? I've seen about four, and all of them are a bit elitist...
I wouldn't know. I didn't talk to the Nikon reps, I was too busy bugging the living daylights out of the Canon guys. :) And they were about as bad, but I forgave them because they let me mess with an 85mm f/1.2L on a 5D. Look, they're salespeople. If you've ever relied on commissions to pay the bills, you'd know how desperate that makes you.

Still, I liked the Leica guy best! He let me mess with a 28mm f/2 Summicron on an M8. :D

[orian_m42]

Thanks everyone for the advice ill start looking at DSLR's ill wait until after the PMA show to get one i might get a better deal.
Im going to guess that if i stick with Canon or Nikon i cant go wrong But how do i tell a good lense from a bad one besides Price?

[mattdm]

Thanks everyone for the advice ill start looking at DSLR's ill wait until after the PMA show to get one i might get a better deal.
Im going to guess that if i stick with Canon or Nikon i cant go wrong

True enough, although this is really also the case with any of the second-tier names too. If you're tight on money or looking for something special, don't count them out. Do you know anyone (family, friends) with dSLRs? Getting the system they've got is never a bad choice.

But how do i tell a good lense from a bad one besides Price?

You can look at reviews:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/
http://www.photozone.de/8Reviews/index.html
http://www.popphoto.com/testsreviews/
http://photo.net/equipment/

etc.

Here's some technical specs to look at, though:

maximum aperture. For zooms, this will often be a range with a narrower limit at the long end. Expensive zooms have a constant limit regardless of focal length. You really want f/2.8 or faster, although f/4 is only one stop slower. f/5.6 is too slow for anything but bright outdoor light or controlled studio conditions (and if that's the limit of the lens, it'll make the viewfinder dark).
metal construction. holds the elements in their precise alignment better.
number of aperture blades -- more (nine, say) will make out-of-focus highlights less distracting (this is one aspect of the much-talked-about "bokeh").
for systems like Canon or Nikon which don't have shake reduction in the body, having SR/VR in the lens is nice. And in fact almost vital for long telephoto lenses.
ultrasonic focus motor -- definitely quieter, and can be faster depending on the system.
In general, things like "aspherical elements" and "apochromatic" and "extra-low dispersion" all mean that the lens has features which help to smooth out various optical aberrations and other problems. You'll get more acronyms the more you spend. :)

[orian_m42]

Thanks mattdm, no one else has a DSLR in my family or friends so im flying solo i can tell that the lense's are going to cost more than the camera body i can see where their more importent than the camera their used on i still don't know what all the terms mean but i found a book im trying to read, im getting information overload i keep rereading it and i think im begining to understand what's going on wow theres a lot more to taking good pictures than i thought .
Ill try and connect the reviews on the lense's with the terms in the book and come up with a good combo that i can start with.

[Major_Small]

But how do i tell a good lense from a bad one besides Price?Reviews are your friend :)

Generally, the lenses made by your camera's manufacturers are better quality. As for budget lenses, I'd look at the Sigma and Quantaray lines - they're actually quite good for their prices. If you're just starting out with an SLR, however, look for a kit. Many people look down on kit lenses, but they're really not all that bad. Yes, there's better, but that doesn't mean kit lenses are complete garbage.

Sticking with the kit idea, Sigma offers kits like these (http://www.adorama.com/SG185055DTZE.html?searchinfo=sigma%20lens%20kit&item_no=4). If you skip the manufacturer's kit lens and just go for the sigma lens, it tacks on about $150 extra dollars. If you hunt around to find the best deal, you can do slightly better, but that's a very good way to go if you don't really know what you're looking for :)

Look, they're salespeople. If you've ever relied on commissions to pay the bills, you'd know how desperate that makes you.

Still, I liked the Leica guy best! He let me mess with a 28mm f/2 Summicron on an M8. :DAh yeah, I used to live off of commission once upon a time =P The sales reps I talked to didn't actually do any selling though. They just memorized specs and taught them to us so we could sell for them. I've never actually heard from any Leica reps now that I think of it... the closest I've gotten to a Leica rep was a panasonic guy. But my favorite rep had to have been from... I think it was Casio. He loved his job and loved his company - almost made me want to buy a Casio myself :D

I don't mind when the reps are enthusiastic about their jobs - I actually like that, but seriously, all the Nikon reps I've heard from were all real jerks. Every other manufacturer I've heard from gave us real, useful pointers and information on how to effectively sell their equipment and make the customer happy. Nikon gave us useless ego-talk like "If you stick with the Nikon line, you can close a full sale (including accessories) in 30 seconds flat" (and yes, I'm serious, that was something one of the reps kept trying to pound into our heads for a good two hours).