Gig lens for D40

[blinking81]

Hey,

Usual thing - just getting into photography and the D40 will be my first DSLR, (I' ve messed around with SLRs before, although briefly). I'm looking to buy some more lenses with the D40 right from the start.

The kit lens will be more than adequate for most things I intend to shoot; however I will be doing a lot of low light work, gig photography etc. So I'm looking for a larger aperture, so I can have a a faster shutter speed.

The other consideration is depending on the gig, I may require a zoom, There are two scenarios: smaller gigs or huge stadium/festival gigs. The way I see it is that for the larger gigs, I wont get a decent shot anyway without a press-pass. So for now the lens will be for smaller gigs.

I am also considering a wide angle lens, perhaps an old Nikon 28mm f/2.8 AF? Also a telephoto - either the Nikon 70-300mm f/4-5.6g or I can get a good deal in the UK on the 55-200mm f/4.5-5.6 AFS G for only £100 if i buy it when i get the D40.

So to conclude, I'm need your help in suggesting some good gig lenses which the main priority - but then as a sidenote, the wideangle and telephoto, any thoughts on the choices, anything better to recommend?

Sorry for the long post, but thanks in advance for any help and advice you might be able to give. I look forward to hearing your replies.

Eric

[Nicole]

From on another post elsewhere in the forum, here is a list of the lenses that you can use with auto focus on your D40:
AF-S 17-35mm 2.8D IF-ED
AF-S 24-85mm 3.5-4.5G IF-ED
AF-S 28-70mm 2.8D IF-ED
AF-S 300mm 2.8D IF-ED II
AF-S 300mm 4D IF-ED
AF-S 400mm 2.8D IF-ED II
AF-S 500mm 4D IF-ED II
AF-S 600mm 4D IF-ED II
AF-S DX 12-24mm 4G IF-ED
AF-S DX 17-55mm 2.8G IF-ED
AF-S DX 18-135mm 3.5-5.6G IF-ED
AF-S DX 18-55mm 3.5-5.6G ED
AF-S DX 18-70mm 3.5-4.5G IF-ED
AF-S DX 55-200mm 4.0-5.6G ED
AF-S DX VR 18-200mm 3.5-5.6G IF-ED
AF-S VR 24-120mm 3.5-5.6G IF-ED
AF-S VR 70-200mm 2.8G IF-ED
AF-S VR 70-300mm 4.5-5.6G IF-ED
AF-S VR 105mm 2.8G IF-ED
AF-S VR 200-400mm 4G IF-ED
AF-S VR 200mm 2G IF-ED
AF-S VR 300mm 2.8G IF-ED

You will be able to use other lenses, but they won't be auto-focus. As you can already figure, you'll need something with a large aperture. What you need to consider is if you're ok with using manual focus instead of auto focus because otherwise your choices for fast lenses are limited, especially by price (example: a lens with a similar aperture / focal length to the 28mm such as the DX 17-55 f/2.8 runs about $1200US).

Not to put a damper on it, but a lens with a maximum aperture of 4 will probably be really difficult to shoot with at a concert. Is there any chance you've considered getting a d50 instead since the prices are similar and the d50 can auto-focus on *a lot* more lenses than the d40?

[blinking81]

Thanks for your quick reply,

Yeh, The D50 was a definate contender, i'll highlight the reasons i was thinking more D40 than D50 to try and show my thought process.

These (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond40/page22.asp) comparison photos.

Smaller form factor - very important to me, as the smaller and lighter it is, the more i will use it and i do a lot of travelling.

The fact the D50 is being discontinued, really puts me off.

It is expected that Nikon will update a lot of their line to AF-S very soon, so although more expensive, the lenses will still be availiable.

Finally Ken Rockwells (http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d40/d40-recommendations.htm) thoughts on the matter.

Thats how i had settled on the D40, but all of that is going on other peoples thoughts and opinions. I have basically no experience with cameras, and so i am entirely going with that based on other peoples views. I'm love to hear contrasting views, helps me make the right decision.

With that in mind, and the small form factor being a big plus point for me, would you still recommend the D50, if so i will have to seriously reconsider things. But thats all ok, i dont care how long it takes i jsut want to make the right decision for my situation. :)

As it stands there is no way i can afford a fast AF lens for low light. So the question that really stands is the kit lens 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G good enough (i'm guessing its not) in which case do i need AF for gig photography?

As i have no experience, i have no idea how important AF is in gig situations, is the AF still vital?

Eric

[Nicole]

Lots of people here with the d50s will probably be pretty loyal to them ;) We all seem to like them, so there's a little bias there. I personally don't care that the d50 has been discontinued because I figure by the time that I upgrade my camera it will be to a much fancier model and Nikon products really seem to last.

As it stands, a really good low light lens at cheap as chips prices is the 50mm f/1.8 (manual focus on the d40, auto on the d50). People rave about this little lens. I love it. It's got a crop factor on it due to the digital, so it is more like the view you would get with a 75mm lens on a 35mm camera. Good for small gigs like you were saying, and very fast. At £90 it's a pretty good deal (just to show that a fast AF lens isn't totally out of your budget).

As far as size, have you actually gone in and held the d40 and d50? It may seem good to have a smaller camera, but the Canon Rebel XT is very similar in build to the d40 (I've been told) and I felt the Rebel was too small and light for me to use. That is a very personal thing though, so I'll stress going to a camera store and just holding the two cameras, and you'll know which feels better to you and which you'll be more likely to use. You don't have to buy it from said store, just go in to hold them.

I couldn't tell you how vital AF is at gig situations since I have very little experience at those. I've done some shooting at dance performances and in other low light situations, but I can't compare how that is to gig photography at all. There are some other members on the forum who would be better suited to answer that question (try this thread on low light photography (http://digital-photography-school.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114&highlight=low+light)). It is possible (http://www.flickr.com/photo_exif.gne?id=324897850) to use a f/3.5 lens wide open, it will just get less light so you may be able to compensate with a higher ISO (beware of more noise) and slower shutter speed. So all is not lost. ;)

I'll just stress going out and holding the cameras yourself and deciding if you want a larger range of cheaper lenses or the newest camera model with some improved features and some missing advanced features.

[blinking81]

I've been into the only camera shop near me (Jessops) and they had the D40 which I loved, having never properlly delt with a D-SLR before the D40 I found it to be a comfortable size and I really appriciated how lightweight it was which is a great.

They didnt have the D50 and said they wouldnt be getting any more, I have no other oppertunities to see the D50, and definatly not them both together to compare.

I would just like to thank you for the time you've taken to reply to my questions so far, I really appreciate all the effort you've gone to.

Thanks for the link to the other threads, have some great tips. I'll see if any other users can help me out with the AF at gigs, although im pretty sure that it is essential as the band members will be constantly moving.

I was sold on the D40, but after more research looking at various lenses, the D50 may be a more viable option. I think I will need to find a D50 and hold it, see how I like it.

Other than that, i will be waiting for a fast AF lens to appear.

I also found a list of other lenses that work with the D40 for anyone else that reads this thread later on.

Sigma:

10-20mm 4-5.6 EX DC HSM

12-24mm 4.5-5.6 EX DG HSM

14mm 2.8 EX

17-35mm 2.8-4.0 EX DG

30mm 1.4 DC

50-500mm 4.0-6.3 EX DG

50-150mm 2.8 EX DC HSM

70-200mm 2,8 EX DG Makro

80-200mm 2.8 EX DG Makro

100-300mm 4.0 EX DG

120-300mm 2.8 EX DG

150mm 2.8 EX DG MAKRO

180mm 3.5 EX DG MAKRO

300mm 2.8 EX DG APO HSM

300-800mm 5.6 EX DG APO

500mm 4.5 EX DG HSM APO

800mm 5.6 EX DG APO

[Nicole]

We all like being helpful here ;) And I can't help but try to help out fellow nikonians ;)

Good to know there are more lenses out there for the d40. Good luck finding a d50 to hold, there's probably somewhere that still has some in stock. It's worth a try, just so that you don't feel like you made the wrong decision once you put down the money for it, good to fully explore the options regardless of which way you go :)

[wulf]

It depends partly on the lighting at the gig in question - the kit lens will certainly be usable, although there might some shots that don't come out or at least need some post-processing adjustment (you can often pull details out of shadows whereas once a highlight is blown, everything is lost, so too dark is better than too light).

A lot of it depends on the gig you are at. For example, I was at a youth event a couple of weeks ago and got a range of pictures. One I particularly liked was this one:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/145/366832208_77a4b8dbaf_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wulf/366832208/)

If the gigs you are at have good lighting, you might manage some excellent shots, full of colour.

Wulf

ps. My uninformed guess is that the range of lenses for the D40 will increase over the coming year, filling some of the gaps in the range.

[blinking81]

I think secretly i still want the D40, and last night before i went to bed i had managed to justify to myself to get the D40 and the 50mm f/1.4 as the AF isn't essential for gigs at the moment.

I wake up and see more replys, (I have the same questions posted at the Nikonian website - well noticed Nicole ;) ) and everyone is more or less saying - dont be silly, go get the D50.

Those are some excellent shots with your D40 Wulf, and i've been nosing around flickr looking at what the kit lens is capable thanks to the EXIF data and i dont know how it compares as a lens, but just going on the photos taken with it, it covers anything i want to do, and i figure i need to learn how to shoot before better lenses would begin to excel. http://flickr.com/groups/d40slr/pool/

I found this photo (http://www.flickr.com/photos/juliushaertl/342695510/) on flickr and although not a shot i would have taken myself, it shows the kit lens it capable of producing nice enough shots in low light.

The things that are really putting me off the D40:
No AF on older lenses
No bracketing! I don't know how much i'd use it, but it appeals at the moment.
Only 3 focus points, but then this could well be enough for me.

Then pro D40 is the:
higher ISO 3200.
colour histogram in D40, only single in D50.
and it is tiny.

This is relly quite funny, I've only been looking at camera for the last month or so, and im arguing in my head about features and lenses i've never even used. I think i need to remember i'm entirely new to this, and not to get so bogged down with the specs and features i may or may not use. I just need to make a choice and go have some fun, experiment and learn.

As it stands i can get the D40 cheaper than a D50, and the smaller form factor will ensure i can take it out more and enjoy shooting. By the time i have figured out how to make a decent shot at gigs, a good fast AF lens could be out. And if i really get into this photography lark then i could well be upgrading by the end of the year.

I still havn't decided, and i don't think i will be able just yet. i really need to find a camera shop that stocks a D40, D50, and a 50mm f/1.8. If i can use the 50mm f/1.8 well enough in gig situations without the AF then i will go for the D40.

Of course i have no idea where i could try out all thse options, and the camera shops near me are a bit rubbish. So much for Cardiff being capital city!

Really, thanks for everything so far, it's made me look into it so much more just to begin to understand my choice, anything i've missed/overlooked/got wrong then please let me know. Thanks again.

Eric

[blinking81]

One quick question, I just dug out my dads old SLR and was messing with the lenses he has, i stuck on a 50mm, and you would really have to be right on stage to get a shot, i mean it leaves no room for being more than a few meters away from your subject.

What do gig photographers do? As another choice could be the D40/D50 but with an all in one lens like the AF-S DX VR 18-200mm 3.5-5.6G IF-ED (except not quite so extreme - i cannot afford that).

Is there no other option for good low light photography other than a fast prime, or incredibaly expensive all in one?

[Nicole]

Is there no other option for good low light photography other than a fast prime, or incredibaly expensive all in one?

Not to my knowledge, unfortunately. Pretty much the cheapest prime lens that you're going to find is going to be the 50mm f/1.8. If you want something longer, there's always the 85mm f/1.8 (which I'm currently contemplating as my next lens purchase). But the 85mm is around $400US (about 4x more than the 50mm).

Fast zooms (read: large aperture) are just expensive. And they're heavy. Which, if the weight is putting you off from buying a D50, isn't a very good thing. And most zooms are a f/5 or so at their longest point, which is not going to let in a whole lot of light unfortunately.

Sorry that's not better info :cool:

[blinking81]

Just thought i'd let everyone know how things turned out..

I paniced.

I bought a D80 :)
I bought a 18-135mm f/3.5 lens
1Gb Card
Lens protector

All for £750 :)

So yeh, nothing like what was planned etc, but there we go. I was persuaded in the many shops i found, all of which hated the D40, praised the D50 (which i didnt get on with) and after deciding i was a Nikon man - it meant i went with the D80.

Once i've had a play with it, i'll take some shots and let you all know how im finding it. Thanks for all your help, especially you nicole - with your fast and always informative replies.

Thanks Again.
Eric

[Nicole]

You're welcome. And I think you'll be really glad you didn't go with the D40 ;) You're getting a much better camera with the D80. Sounds like you've got a good starter kit, and I'll look forward to seeing you post some shots around here :)

[NaturesPixel]

wow excellent :) im so glad you didn't go for the d40 .. while its a capable camera ... the d80 is such a better choice...if i was to do again .. it would be d80 all the way...

[blinking81]

Starter kit... or a stupidly expensive semi-pro camera that im using as my starter kit.?!

At least now i'll HAVE to take the camera everywhere i go, and use it non-stop jsut so that i get my moneys worth. hehehe.

I'm intending to pick up a 50mm 1.8 as soon as possible after taking the camera out for a spin last night to a party, with horrible dark and obfuscated results. So thats next on the list.

Thanks for all your help again, and heres a thread showing the photos i took with it the first night i had it :)

http://digital-photography-school.com/forum/showthread.php?t=954