Another "Which Camera" Question

[psykon99]

Ok, I'm sure some of you have seen my two previous "which camera" posts, and I'm sorry to burden you with another. I'm just trying to sort some of this out.

At this point I have excluded the Canon Rebel XT from the running. The screen is too small and the menu - especially on the small screen - is not quite as easy to navigate. There is a difference in hand-hold feel - though not as pronounced for me as has been for some. I also liked the control placement on the D40.

I'm looking at the D40 w/ the 18-135mm zoom lens package at Adorama or BHPhotoVideo. I use a 10x zoom now, and I just don't think that the 3x equivalency of the kit lens is enough for me. I prefer to zoom in to frame rather than crop later. That puts me at around $700.

So here's my new question: Now that I'm at the $700 mark, is it worth it to just make do with a kit lens for now and buy the Canon Rebel XTi or D40x for the same price range (give or take $10 or so)? Do either the XTi or D40x have enough difference to the D40 to make one settle for 3x zoom in order to get the potentially better camera body? I can always buy a zoom lens later (though I prefer a WAZoom as I wouldn't like to be changing lenses all the time - like when I want to get closer than 3 feet) but then that's more money I have to come up with and get past the missus! ;-)

Note: The menu and feel of the XTi, while still not as good as the D40/x, is much more acceptable to me than the XT.

**Note: since writing this - I found out that one can indeed change the color saturation '
in-camera on the XT/XTi - which I couldn't find the other day (what does that say for the
menu? - or maybe just me). That puts the XT back in the running, but still behind the D40
for now. But the $700 price point still stands: D40w/7xZoom or XTi or D40x w/ kit lenses?

Thoughts anyone?

Thanks again for all the help!

[kirbinster]

As a D40 owner, who went through the comparison of the D40 vs D40x, I went with the D40 as the D40x does not give you much for the $200 extra. In my mind it actually may give you less as it will not flash-sync as fast and has more noise in the picture in some cases. The real world value of the 10 megapixel versus 6 is small. I have made many 8x10 prints that are great quality from D40 shots that I have cropped down by 50% of more. Go with the D40 and spend the "savings" on better or more glass.

Think of it this way, if you can get closer by being able to zoom in more then you won't need those extra megapixels to crop away.

[jdepould]

Thinking of zoom on DSLRs in terms of times of multiplication doesn't really work. Aside from the fact that 18-135 is 7.5x, it just doesn't matter, because 100-400 (pretty hefty telephoto range) is technically 4x; everything is relative. 135 is a good medium tele length and that lens will give you a ton of options for framing. From what I understand it isn't a bad lens optically, so it'd probably be a pretty good place to start. I'd say save your money if you're thinking about springing for the D40x. The XTi is probably worth a look, but if you really want the extra reach stick with the D40 and 18-135. Lenses are more important than bodies, but make sure you get a body you're comfortable with. Also, you'll probably spend a fair amount of time simply learning the new camera and figuring out what lenses you may or may not need. A lot of times, people buy lenses when they buy a camera because they think they'll use it, but it ends up sitting in their bag taking up space.

To summarize: get the D40/18-135 kit and don't worry too much about other lenses for the first six months or so. You'll figure out what works and what doesn't in that time, just go from there.

[Robin Sarac]

At the end of the day, it's not that big a deal. :) But the D40 and save the $300 for the 18-200mm VR lens. I went with the D80, and while I love it, I should have spent the money on that lens instead. All cameras take great pictures and odds are pretty good you won't be left wanting no matter which one you choose. Go get the D40 and start shooting!

I personally don't think the whole 6 versus 10 MP thing is all that important either. I've made large prints with pictures from my D50 and they're fantastic.

Looking forward to seeing some of your pictures!

[velvet4269]

If I had to do it all over again, with an unlimited budget, I'd have probably bought the Nikon D40. I played with the Canon XTi and just didn't like how it felt in my hand - the controls were funky, I couldn't even get to the menu, let alone play around with it, and i didn't like how the manual focus worked.

The D40, however, had a sweet manual focus - sharper than the Olympus I ended up buying, was pretty easy to just pick up and use, but the price tag put me off (for now).

Don't get me wrong - I love my Olympus, but there's always going to be that little part of me that wishes ever so slightly that I'd waited.

[wulf]

For most people, whatever you buy, there is always going to be a bit of you that wishes you had made a different decision. In fact, I am surprised how little I have regretted my choice of the D40.

Here is another hand up for the plain ole D40 and the longer lens option.

Wulf

[RexK_Cozumel]

yup me too if you like the feel of the D40 best you should definately get it over your other choices since you will be carrying/holding it for a considerable amount of time in the future (at least I hope you will) it is very important how it feels. Much like a good pair of shoes they can be ugly with little to no options but if they are comfortable I will probabbly wear them out 99% of the time.

[smc1377]

Same here. Even though I've complained about 6mp and its limits when cropping down, that's not nearly as annoying as not having a good lens with a good range. If it's between a D40 with an 18-135 vs D40x with kit lens or XTi with kit lens, I'd be very tempted to go the D40 route.

[ELAY]

Not to be a contrarian, but if you are leaning D40, be sure you think through the lens compatibility issue first (see my post in your other thread).

EL

[praesentire]

I'd like to throw in a wrench here and suggest a used D70 body. :D
You can get a used 18-135mm for cheap as well.

[ELAY]

THat's kind of where I was going.

[PLouie]

I'm not sure why some of you guys have trouble with the menus on the XT and XTi. I've had my XT for awhile now and I've had no trouble. I just read the instruction manual that came with it and then I understood how it works.

The only thing that I don't like about the XT is the small LCD screen.

[smc1377]

I've never owned the consumer level DSLR's. I jumped right into a Canon 10D. So when I traded cameras with a buddy, I found myself confused by the Controls of the Rebels. I know Canon was just trying to dumb it down for the consumer so that it looks more like how most P&S camera menus. But it's not even close to as simple as how the prosumer to pro Canons are. That's why I personally don't like the Rebel series menu system.

[wulf]

As always, don't forget to look at the camera's owned by the people giving advice. Even the best of us tend to suggest either (a) what we own or (b) what we aspire to (so you get the opinions you ask for but it is far from objective) ;)

I know this has been mentioned in other, similar threads, but I thought it worth spelling out again for all those browsing this as their first steps in figuring out which camera for them!

Wulf

[velvet4269]

I had the opportunity to play with the model down from the camera I ended up buying (the E-300, rather than the E-500), so I was already familiar with the camera, and knew what I liked about it. And really, about the only thing I *don't* like about my camera is the fact that any additional lenses are going to cost as much as, if not more than, my camera with the 2-lens kit.

Don't get me wrong: I don't regret my choice by any means - it works for me, I like the pictures I get with it, and it was well within my "affordable" range. But that doesn't mean I can't wish ;) Kinda like "I'm happy with my little sensible 4-door sedan, but boy I wish I had the money for that BMW convertable, cus it's shiny." ;)

[psykon99]

I'm not sure why some of you guys have trouble with the menus on the XT and XTi. I've had my XT for awhile now and I've had no trouble. I just read the instruction manual that came with it and then I understood how it works.

The only thing that I don't like about the XT is the small LCD screen.

For me it's not so much that it's not understandable as much as it's just not well laid out and visually pleasing. The XTi is certainly better in this department than the XT - mainly because of the larger display, but I noticed they also smoothed out a few of the menu screens too.

[psykon99]

Not to be a contrarian, but if you are leaning D40, be sure you think through the lens compatibility issue first (see my post in your other thread).

EL

Thanks ELAY. It is something I have thought about, but at this time, I have no other lenses - so it wouldn't really affect me. Sigma is starting to make lenses for the D40 too, so it seems that territory is starting to open up.

Interestingly enough, there's a guy I work with who left photography awhile ago, and he still might have a few Canon lenses laying around. He said he'd take a look. If he has anything worthwhile- and if they're cheap- then it might be enough to sway me back to one of the Rebels. For now - though - I'm leaning Nikon. Now if I could just sell my Finepix S700 I'd be set!

[RexK_Cozumel]

be very careful when buying used lenses. I would be sure to check them out before hand as there could be all sorts of problems wrong with them not only from the use but from the storage as well.

[mattdm]

So here's my new question: Now that I'm at the $700 mark, is it worth it to just make do with a kit lens for now and buy the Canon Rebel XTi or D40x for the same price range (give or take $10 or so)? Do either the XTi or D40x have enough difference to the D40 to make one settle for 3x zoom in order to get the potentially better camera body? I can always buy a zoom lens later (though I prefer a WAZoom as I wouldn't like to be changing lenses all the time - like when I want to get closer than 3 feet) but then that's more money I have to come up with and get past the missus! ;-)

Remember, whatever body you buy now will be getting long in the tooth in three years and definitely be a relic in five. A decent lens will last you twenty years or more.

PS: don't forget to put the Pentax K10D in your consideration. This is basically a Canon 30D / Nikon D80 (or even D200) level camera which can be had for the price of the Canon XTi.

[psykon99]

At the end of the day, it's not that big a deal. :) But the D40 and save the $300 for the 18-200mm VR lens. I went with the D80, and while I love it, I should have spent the money on that lens instead. All cameras take great pictures and odds are pretty good you won't be left wanting no matter which one you choose. Go get the D40 and start shooting!

I personally don't think the whole 6 versus 10 MP thing is all that important either. I've made large prints with pictures from my D50 and they're fantastic.

Looking forward to seeing some of your pictures!

You should see the size of some of the Nikon provided prints made by the D40 at the camera store next to where I work. Incredible - and much bigger than they say you can go w/ a 6 megapixel! Especially the RAW versions. The JPEG poster looks good too, but up close you can see some color distortion and ever so slight pixelation. Stand back and it's not bad though. Made me feel alot better about the 6MP.

[RussHeath]

A slightly different perspective:

I have a D80 and the 18-200, so for the purposes of this discussion, I didn't really make any compromises. However, if you asked me now which I would rather "downgrade" (wrong term I know, but you get the point) I would pick the camera in a heartbeat. In otherwords, the lens is much more important.

So you want my real advice? Get the D40 with the 18-55 (or used 18-135 if you feel it may be a while before buying another lens) and save your money for the 18-200. It's worth it! I have a hard time overstating how important VR is on the longer tele end. It's the difference between me carrying a tripod and not carrying one. And if you spend much time lugging gear around, that's a big difference.

I also echo Wulf's warning that we're all giving you advice based largely on our own experiences (and therefore predjudices).