k200d and the dust removal system

[hector49]

ok - I can only imagine how annoying this is getting for everyone, since I am annoyed at my questions as well, but the more I look and compare different cameras, the more confused I get about what is the best camera for me to get.
For me, it is pretty much between the k200d and the nikon d80 - I know posting this on the pentax forum, I am going to get some one sided comments, and I am completely ok with that - expect it really.
but there are some definite differences between the two cameras and one of them is the dust removal system - the d80 doesn't have one - the d60 does, but no auto focus in the body, which is important to me.
what does everyone think about the dust removal system? is it worth it enough to choose one brand over another?
the other difference is price, and I am not too concerned about that - if I were to choose the pentax, I could grab another lens that would pretty much equal the cost of the nikon with the kit lens, but the lens wouldn't be a super quality one (from what I have researched).
anyway, thats the question, let me know your comments.
thanks again
hector

[GEli]

While not completely useless, the dust removal system in any camera is of limited use. In the K200Ds case I believe the dust removal system involves using the image stabilization mechanism to shake the sensor vigorously for a short period of time, ideally shaking off all the dust on the sensor at the same time. While it's a great preventative measure (I have my K10D set to shake on every startup), dust will occasionally still get stuck on the sensor and require a blower to remove. I really don't think the dust removal system should be a high importance item on your pros and cons list.

In fact, don't give the bodies all the attention. You're buying into a system where you'll be upgrading the body every few years anyways, so it's really the lense lineup that you should be going over with a fine toothcomb. Pick the system with the lenses that you'll be using both now and those you'll upgrade to in the future. The differences between the D80 and the K200D are really small compared to the differences in the price and quality of the lenses both systems are compatible with.

[mattdm]

GEli is spot-on.

As anecdotal evidence, though, I'll add that dust was a constant problem with my K100D (which had no dust removal system), but in the six months since I've upgraded to a K10D, there's only been one stubborn speck of dust the sensor shake didn't get rid of, and I blew that off with a rocket blower. And I don't even have it set to go at start-up — I just do it whenever I change lenses and periodically when I think about it.

[hjrosasq]

Well, I had to made a similar choice not long ago, and although I agree 100% with GEli, I have to say that I prefer to have it than don't; anyway, both systems are very good, you should feel them both in your hands, first, that feature shouldn't make a huge difference, since you will have dust anyway, and more or less often, you'll have to clean it manually or send it to service, there're a lot of other features to pay more attention to, but bottom line, is the one that feels 'right' for you.

Good luck!

[hector49]

thats part of my challenge at this point - both cameras feel pretty good to me, so I am just comparing the differing features, and to be honest, the pentax seems to have more features that stand out for a beginner - or semi beginner - like myself.
the major thing holding me up on Pentax is the succession plan for their cameras and the investment I am making - but everything else I think I like better.
on another completely off topic note, I picked up a xsi in a store today (simply because it was there) and I really didn't like it - not sure why, but it just didn't feel right to me. just commentary.
anyway, thanks again for all the advice - much appreciated.
hector

[mattdm]

thats part of my challenge at this point - both cameras feel pretty good to me, so I am just comparing the differing features, and to be honest, the pentax seems to have more features that stand out for a beginner - or semi beginner - like myself.

No argument there. Except I'd not restrict it to beginners. :)

the major thing holding me up on Pentax is the succession plan for their cameras and the investment I am making - but everything else I think I like better.

Things look pretty good with Hoya, and Samsung seems pretty serious too. I was a little worried for a while but I'm not now.

[hector49]

Thanks Matt - I agree that the features would be pretty attractive to the more experience photographer as well - I was only speaking of my own thoughts on the matter ofcourse, but I do think the camera is something I will be happy with for some time - at least I hope it is.
As for Hoya and Samsung - I have been reading some more on Samsung and their involvement/sharing of technology with Pentax and have been intrigued by this - simply for knowing Samsung and how they get involved with research and development.
I can't find a store in Toronto Canada that carries Samsung though - I would have thought the major stores would have them, but no such luck - just wanted to see differences, which I know are minor, but you never know I guess.
Hoya, from what I have read, does seem committed to the brand, which is good, but companies are fickle - one slow quarter and they can change their minds.
But there is plenty of good legacy glass out there that I am sure I can find - and get what I need.
Thanks again to everyone.

[mattdm]

Samsung went from a very distant 7th place in overall digital camera sales in 2005 to almost beating 3rd-place Kodak in 2007. (First is Canon, second is Sony.) Most of that is in compact cameras, but they seem poised to make a big dSLR push too, with hints that they're going to branch out this year and make models that differ significantly from rebadged Pentaxes. They're a gigantic company (more total revenue than Hoya, Canon, Sony, Nikon, and Olympus combined), so, although your point about fickle corporations and quarterly results is well-taken, they've certainly got the resources for the long haul.

[hector49]

agreed - Samsung is huge and they are currently linked with Pentax for their system, but you mention they may be branching out this year to build different bodies, do you think they will keep the same mounting system, or will they develop their own glass as well.
could be a backlash for those Samsung owners using Pentax glass - but, then again, it could be better for Pentax if that happens.
either way, Samsung is huge, I just hope they continue to link themselves/partner with Pentax - I think its good for Pentax.

[Mr Guy]

It's such a strong selling point, and besides their brand recognition in other consumer products, it's the their main selling point. I'd be really surprised if the terms of their technology licensing agreements didn't include the promise to make all their future products compatible. I'd less surprised if at some point the consumer optics was split off from Pentax's other operations and sold to Samsung flat out.

[mattdm]

agreed - Samsung is huge and they are currently linked with Pentax for their system, but you mention they may be branching out this year to build different bodies, do you think they will keep the same mounting system, or will they develop their own glass as well.
could be a backlash for those Samsung owners using Pentax glass - but, then again, it could be better for Pentax if that happens.
either way, Samsung is huge, I just hope they continue to link themselves/partner with Pentax - I think its good for Pentax.

They're almost certainly keeping the Pentax K mount — I can't imagine any reason they'd want to start off with something new when they can take advantage of what's out there already.

There's some rumor that they're going to start making original Schneider-Kreuznach branded lenses, but I'm skeptical. So far, they've just repackaged Pentax designs under that name. We'll see.

[hector49]

you wouldn't think they would just abandon what they had already built (to a degree) and alienate their consumers, but you never know.
It wouldn't make any sense from a customer service perspective - I know I would be on the phone asking them what the hell.
time will tell I guess, and if they are committed then great - pentax is a great camera brand - hate to see it go anywhere.
and I don't even have a pentax yet - but it feels like I am leaning that way - lots of things I like about their system.

[MikeM]

Are there any K10Ds still floating around? A quick look at the spec sheet shows that the K10D should be as good or better than the K200D. It's got weather sealing and it looks like the 200D only does 1 fps in RAW? Ugh. 10D does 3 fps in RAW nicely.

[GEli]

There are a lot of used ones on the market from guys upgrading to the K20D, and there are still some new ones in stock at amazon and such. I'd check PentaxForums.com's buy/sell forum - you see 2-3 K10Ds per day pass through there for around $600 used. The K10D is officially discontinued now, and production stopped long ago so they could start building K20D stock. The price of K10Ds has actually gone up by around $100 since ~2 weeks before the K20D was officially announced. Still definitely worth the price, though.

[hector49]

is the k10d used a better value than the k200d?
why?
I am a firm believer in buying new - for the record - but thats me - if I could get a10d new, then maybe, but the places I go, they don't have them.
hector

[GEOFF GREGORY]

I was until recently the owner of a Pentax K100d Super..which has the sensor shake dust removal system. The camera got stolen last week, and to be perfectly honest I'm not sorry it did. Dust was a constant irritation..if it was shaken off the sensor it settled on the mirror or elsewhere..so every time I framed a shot I appeared to be forever seeing 'bits' before my eyes.

[mattdm]

is the k10d used a better value than the k200d?
why?

I missed this earlier. Depending on what you can find and for what price, it could be a better value because you get basically the same insides but with a higher-class body with more accessible controls.

[hector49]

thanks matt - but its a bit too late - I already bought the 200 - so far so good - still learning - I like the feel and the features - trying to get some good pictures out of it - just haven't had any time to put them on the computer and share yet.
that and I'm not sure if they are good enough at this point.
soon though, soon.
thanks again.