3 Reasons to Shoot Vertical Aspect Landscapes and 6 Tips on How to Shoot Them - Digital Photography School
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3 Reasons to Shoot Vertical Aspect Landscapes and 6 Tips on How to Shoot Them

A Guest Contribution by Todd Sisson – author of our brand new Landscape Photography eBook (currently 33% off).

The majority of landscape images are photographed in the horizontal aspect. I guess this because the horizontal format approximates the way in which we perceive ‘reality.’ However landscapes look stunning in the vertical format and often the unique characteristics of the upright format suit a scene better than a horizontal* composition. I am guilty of undershooting verticals these days, primarily for commercial reasons, but in any given shooting situation I try to remind myself to seek both a vertical and a horizontal composition from a scene.

Here’s why I think you should photograph vertically and some quick tips for successful upright image making.

Reason One: Verticals are Easy to Learn

Vertical composition using a wide angle or ultra-wide lens is the fast track to making interesting landscape images. My first successful landscapes were all vertical compositions where I found a moderately photogenic foreground object and used this to lead into the greater scene. To this day I find it easier to frame up an interesting sunset in the vertical format. I use rocks, grasses, flowers – just about anything with form to introduce the viewer’s eye to the scene.

Moraine Lake, Alberta Canada (1997).  Nikon F601, Nikkor 24mm, f/16, (shutter speed unknown), Fuji Velvia and most importantly, Lee 3 stop GND filter.  This was the first image that I ever made that actually turned out how I thought it would!  Note that foreground elements don't have to be spectacular to work, they just have to be well arranged in the frame and complement the rest of the scene.  When I was learning, I found it easier to eliminate foreground distractions and make a 'tight' composition in the vertical format. As a result, I shot far too many verticals in my early days and very few good horizontal images...

Moraine Lake, Alberta Canada (1997). Nikon F601, Nikkor 24mm, f/16, (shutter speed unknown), Fuji Velvia and most importantly, Lee 3 stop GND filter. This was the first image that I ever made that actually turned out how I thought it would! Note that foreground elements don’t have to be spectacular to work, they just have to be well arranged in the frame and complement the rest of the scene. When I was learning, I found it easier to eliminate foreground distractions and make a ‘tight’ composition in the vertical format. As a result, I shot far too many verticals in my early days and very few good horizontal images…

Reason Two: Vertical Compositions can be more Dynamic

In this dPS blog post, I explained the principles of ‘dynamic landscape compositions’. What I didn’t reveal in that article (for some inexplicable reason) was that vertical compositions can often accentuate the dynamic qualities of an image – particularly when using an ultra-wide lens.

The Clutha River at Alexandra (it's not wonky, the bridge slopes downhill...).  Nikon D7000, Nikkor 12-24mm f/4 DX, Marumi Polarizer. 12 mm, f/11, 1/13th, ISO100.  The vertical format accentuated the leading lines present in the foreground rocks.  Getting low and tilting down on an ultra-wide lens distorts and extends the perceived length of leading lines in the foreground.

The Clutha River at Alexandra (it’s not wonky, the bridge slopes downhill…). Nikon D7000, Nikkor 12-24mm f/4 DX, Marumi Polarizer. 12 mm, f/11, 1/13th, ISO100. The vertical format accentuated the leading lines present in the foreground rocks. Getting low and tilting down on an ultra-wide lens distorts and extends the perceived length of leading lines in the foreground.

The Clutha River at Alexandra (the bridge still slopes downhill – I promise!).  Nikon D7000, Nikkor 12-24mm f/4 DX, Marumi Polarizer. 12 mm, f/11, 1/13th, ISO100.  When shooting horizontally, the bridge and trees would not be in frame if we used the same camera angles and proximity that were applied in the vertical format. In this case I had to step back and recompose to include everything, which reduced the dynamic impact of the rocks.

The Clutha River at Alexandra (the bridge still slopes downhill – I promise!). Nikon D7000, Nikkor 12-24mm f/4 DX, Marumi Polarizer. 12 mm, f/11, 1/13th, ISO100. When shooting horizontally, the bridge and trees would not be in frame if we used the same camera angles and proximity that were applied in the vertical format. In this case I had to step back and recompose to include everything, which reduced the dynamic impact of the rocks.

Reason Three: Verticals Sell Well

In the introduction I polluted the artistic sanctity of the article by mentioning ‘commercial reasons’. Five years ago we made most of our living from selling postcards of our images – horizontal postcards vastly outsell vertical postcards, and they fit better on a display stand, so I found myself inadvertently locked into a horizontal mindset (as I mentioned last week, deep thought and self-awareness are not my strong point). This sales trend is definitely mirrored in our website where the bulk of our print sales are horizontal.

However, In the past year we have ramped up our stock photography activity and this is one area where vertical images sell extremely well – especially for editorial usage and magazine covers where the format works beautifully with the vertical layout of printed media. Consequently, we are shooting a lot more vertical images. You may not be a full-time photographer but there are myriad ways to earn money from your photographic hobby these days, don’t leave money on the table – shoot verticals along with your horizontal compositions.

Vertical Shooting Tip 1: Get Low and Close

As I noted in the previous image, getting low and close accentuates the visual power of leading lines and dramatically increases the visual weight of foreground features. To go low you will need to use a tripod that has no centre column in order to get super close to the ground, I have detailed our tripod advice here which may be of interest if you are perplexed by the ins and outs of the tripod purchasing process.

Mount Egmont New Zealand. Canon 5d mkii, Canon 17-40mm f/4 ultra-wide, Marumi polarizer. 17 mm, f/16, 1 sec, ISO100. By getting implausibly close to the foreground grass in this scene I have eliminated other distracting elements, increased the visual weight of the grasses and accentuated the leading lines in the bottom right of shot. As well as being close, I was also very low to the ground while making this image.

Mount Egmont New Zealand. Canon 5d mkii, Canon 17-40mm f/4 ultra-wide, Marumi polarizer. 17 mm, f/16, 1 sec, ISO100. By getting implausibly close to the foreground grass in this scene I have eliminated other distracting elements, increased the visual weight of the grasses and accentuated the leading lines in the bottom right of shot. As well as being close, I was also very low to the ground while making this image.

Vertical Shooting Tip 2: Get High and Close

When using an ultra-wide lens it is possible to include the full sweep of a scene and accentuate the visual dynamics of the image by getting above the foreground elements and composing vertically. To achieve this you will need a tripod that extends well above the height of your subject matter and then angle the camera downwards.

Lupine flowers, Mackenzie basin New Zealand (by Sarah Sisson). Canon 5d mkii, Canon 17-40mm f/4 ultra-wide, Marumi polarizer. 17 mm, f/16, 1/8th sec, ISO100. Sarah had to fully extend her tripod and stand on a box in order to get the camera above these chest high lupin flowers.  The high perspective meant that all of the meadow is visible  and accentuated the space between flowers in the foreground.

Lupine flowers, Mackenzie basin New Zealand (by Sarah Sisson). Canon 5d mkii, Canon 17-40mm f/4 ultra-wide, Marumi polarizer. 17 mm, f/16, 1/8th sec, ISO100. Sarah had to fully extend her tripod and stand on a box in order to get the camera above these chest high lupin flowers. The high perspective meant that all of the meadow is visible and accentuated the space between flowers in the foreground.

Vertical Shooting Tip 3: Break down the Composition

When composing strong verticals I tend to ‘break down’ the scene into foreground, midground and background (the same thinking helps with horizontal images of course). A good composition will contain interest in all three of these visual zones – which roughly approximates the rule of thirds compositional guidelines.

Lake Pukaki New Zealand.  Nikon D800e, Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8 ultra-wide lens, Marumi Polarizer and Singh Ray 3 stop GND filter. This image has layers of visual interest in the foreground (gravel bar and rocks) mid-ground (reflected color & mountains) and the background (the sky). Note that the terms foreground, mid-ground and background align loosely with the principles of the rule of third – I find that I shoot more in sync with the rule of thirds for verticals than horizontals.

Lake Pukaki New Zealand. Nikon D800e, Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8 ultra-wide lens, Marumi Polarizer and Singh Ray 3 stop GND filter. This image has layers of visual interest in the foreground (gravel bar and rocks) mid-ground (reflected color & mountains) and the background (the sky). Note that the terms foreground, mid-ground and background align loosely with the principles of the rule of third – I find that I shoot more in sync with the rule of thirds for verticals than horizontals.

Vertical Shooting Tip 4: – Leave some Space

Having just referred to the dreaded rule of thirds, I feel it my duty to throw a spanner into the works. Try messing with your vertical compositions by leaving ‘too much’ empty space. Dead space can look cool and graphic designers love it for dropping text into (sales tip).

Lone cabbage tree, Taranaki New Zealand.  Nikon D7000, Nikkor 16-85mm DX, Marumi Polarizer. 35 mm, f/11, 1/20h, ISO100.  I think that vertical images often look great with plenty of empty real estate (I am a gleeful recidivist breaker of the rule of thirds). This image has sold several times as an interior page with text dropped over the sky portion.

Lone cabbage tree, Taranaki New Zealand. Nikon D7000, Nikkor 16-85mm DX, Marumi Polarizer. 35 mm, f/11, 1/20h, ISO100. I think that vertical images often look great with plenty of empty real estate (I am a gleeful recidivist breaker of the rule of thirds). This image has sold several times as an interior page with text dropped over the sky portion.

Vertical Shooting Tip 5: Try Telephoto Verticals

Telephoto verticals are a particularly attractive compositional option, particularly around mountains. Because the long edge is oriented top to bottom you can exploit telephoto compression more effectively (by allowing more foreground into the frame at longer focal lengths and emphasizing the height differential across the scene).

The road to Mount Cook New Zealand.  Nikon D7000, Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 Vrii, Marumi Polarizer. 135 mm (202mm 35mm equivalent), f/11, 1/15h, ISO100. The vertical aspect exaggerates the effects of telephoto compression in scenes like this.

The road to Mount Cook New Zealand. Nikon D7000, Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 Vrii, Marumi Polarizer. 135 mm (202mm 35mm equivalent), f/11, 1/15h, ISO100. The vertical aspect exaggerates the effects of telephoto compression in scenes like this.

Vertical Shooting Tip 6: Invest in an L-Bracket

An L-bracket or ‘L-plate’ is an L­-shaped (surprise, surprise!) tripod mounting plate that wraps around your camera body. This allows you to effortlessly mount your camera in the vertical orientation without having to flop the ballhead’s mounting point over on it’s side. Never again will you have to fight gravity and adjust tripod legs in order to get the camera leveled when shooting vertically – genius!

You will find a bit more information on the benefits of L-plates here on our website.

*I use the terms vertical or horizontal because the commonly used ‘portrait’ and ‘landscape’ terminology makes me abnormally irascible and grumpy. These terms are a nonsensical hangover derived from a Windows 95 printer options dialog box (maybe this riles my inner Mac Veteran). After all, a portrait can be photographed vertically or horizontally and likewise a landscape…..

Todd & Sarah Sisson are full-time landscape photographers based in Central Otago New Zealand. They are the authors of our new eBook Loving Landscapes: A Guide to Landscape Photography Workflow and Post Processing.

Their work can be found as fine art prints & canvas prints at www.sisson.co.nz  They can be found on FacebookGoogle Plus and Twitter.

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  • http://500px.com/1100Photography Clyde McCorkle

    This is all really good advise. It reminds me of a tip I saw in another article earlier this year, I want to say it was about portrait work perhaps, but it talked about how you should mix vertical with horizontal shots. One of the tips I remember most is this, and I’m paraphrasing perhaps, “When is the best time to shoot a vertical shot? Right after you shoot a horizontal”. You should always shoot with purpose but if you aren’t sure which layout is better, take both.

  • http://bit.ly/oufr4c Brian Fuller

    I like tips #1 & #3

    Flickr:
    http://bit.ly/oufr4c

  • ScottC

    I went thru my scapes and realized that I never do this, great advice that I can use! Thanks!

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/lendog64/sets/72157632350847680/

  • http://www.cramerimaging.com Pocatello Photography, Cramer Imaging

    Another point that I read about is that, if you want to shoot a panorama, shooting vertical is the way to go. Sometimes you can luck into a great shot that way. I have gotten a couple excellent shots out of a failed panorama before.

  • tre

    looks like you have done some hyperfocal shots here…maybe?

    i don’t see that mentioned in the article – for vertical landscape shots it’s a very important technique to keep in mind

    nice pics and article, thanks

  • Geoff

    In other words, if you want to shoot interesting landscapes don’t shoot ‘landscape’ format but ‘portrait’.
    I can see the next article approaching from over the horizon… ‘If you want to shoot interesting portraits don’t use ‘portrait’ format…..
    How about square shaped images?

  • Mark G

    A big thank you for this advise I’m going to outer Mongolian later this year and have been looking for some good advice on landscapes, this was so helpful can’t wait to get there and start shooting.

  • Carlos Comesanas

    I remember an article I read many years ago where a woman, editor I believe from the National Geographic, said that she constantly had to be remaining her photographers that the camera could be turned sideways and still take pictures.

  • John

    Geoff’s comment are off-the-wall. I always shoot both horizontal and vertical landscapes, just as I make a monochrome image file for any image on which I spend any significant time editing. One really never know which format or color option will be best. I’m planning on purchasing a battery grip to make vertical shots easier.

  • http://www.throughcherylseyesphotography.com/cheryls-photography-blog.html Cheryl Garrity

    Beautiful photographs!!!

    You have helped me in a number of ways. You have reminded me of the value of shooting verticals. Also you have refreshed my memory on how to create good verticals. I just looked on my new webpage and discovered that I have only about 20 % of my photos at verticals.

    I am also planning to purchase a better tripod and you note about getting down low is a good reminder.

    Thank you!

  • http://blogs.gonomad.com/traveltalesfromindia/ Mridula

    I thoroughly enjoyed your pictures and tips. And while I am buying gear let me go and hunt for that L Bracket too.

    http://blogs.gonomad.com/traveltalesfromindia/

  • Barry E Warren

    This is great stuff. I’ve been shooting mostly horizontal on landscapes. When I go out this afternoon to shoot the dam and covered bridge at the waterworks, I will use vertical. Thanks

  • Paul Plak

    Yes, having extra grip and a second shutter release (like on Nikon D3S and D4) makes vertical format so much more natural and easy to take.
    And vertical is an easy way to get extra depth and perspective into your frame.

  • Yacko

    If one doesn’t have a true wide lens but a more common “near” wide lens which would be something in the 24-30 mm range, you can still shoot wide verticals by being a contrarian. Just as you can shoot a horizontal panoramic by stitching together a series of VERTICAL shots, you can also shoot a vertical panorama by shooting a series of LANDSCAPE shots from low to high and stitching them with PShop or similar.

  • http://www.sisson.co.nz Todd Sisson

    Crikey! what a great response – looks like I’m not the only one out there neglecting the verts!

    I like @pocotello photography’s pointer too – I shoot panos in vertical and often pluck one or two frames out of the sequence, a double win!

    Don’t forget to check out the ebook if you want some pointers on shooting panoramics – there’s a chapter on that in there:

    http://digital-photography-school.com/landscapes

  • http://mynikonni.blogspot.com Rodney

    Love this article. What you said are absolutely true. I for one always ended up taking more vertical pictures than horizontal because I always find that those shots almost always turned out more `powerful’ especially after I got hold of my super wide angle lens. I have constantly remind myself to shot horizontal for every scene that I am capturing. Still lots to learn but it is an adventure that allows me to keep my sanity in the mad mad rat race corporate world. Thanks for the tips and the pictures look absolutely stunning. Just wish that I could get to that level someday. Till then, I am not giving up. I have been relocated to Beijing China for a couple of years and taking time to travel as much as I possibly can to see what this great country has to offer. I have a page in Facebook dedicated to my travels. It’s called `Laowai in China.’ All are welcome to visit and hopefully, I could provide some insight of the stunning scenes of this country. Meanwhile, comments are always welcome in my travelling and photography blog at http://mynikonni.blogspot.com. Cheers everyone.

  • https://marius-fotografie.blogspot.com marius2die4

    I believe that each format (vertical or orizontal) has advantages for different ideas. You get an idea of you want to do and trying to accomplish as better.

    Some of my picture:
    https://marius-fotografie.blogspot.com

  • vipul vaibhav
  • Jim the Photographer

    I purchased Todd’s new e-book and am presently studying it. It has a lot of good information. I’ve shot landscapes in portrait mode. I especially do it when I want to highlight the sky. It works.

    As to shooting portraits in landscape mode (as a comment suggested) I’ve done that too. When done properly it works too!

  • http://500px.com/martijnkort M.Kort

    Here is a recent vertical landscape shot of me on 500px.

    Some wheat field.
    [eimg url='http://500px.com/photo/42854698' title='42854698']

  • http://500px.com/martijnkort M.Kort

    Here is my latest vertical landscape on 500px:

    [eimg url='http://500px.com/photo/42854698' title='42854698']

  • DuLaurence Miller

    I went to his link to recommended equipment. Great overview with one exception. He touts the Nikon 55-200mm zoom, especially for it’s light weight for travel. I ordered it, and it is definitely a $256 telephoto lens, as in it’s only worth that price. I did a series of direct comparison shots at different focal lengths between it and my 70-300mm Nikon VR. HUGE difference. Sent it back.

  • Paul Plak

    to @dulaurence miller Nikon 55-200mm zoom

    That’s why he also says : “Don’t buy this lens as your mainstay long lens though – the trade off is that image quality is a train-wreck when shot at anything below f/8.”

    Can’t have something worth 2000 $ at 256 $ cost. Thanks for reporting it.

  • Barry E Warren

    Great read and tips on Verticals something I should start doing on my landscapes. As I when threw my landscape stock photo’s I noticed they were 99% Horz. It’s time to change and do both…Thanks for sharing.

Some older comments

  • Paul Plak

    August 20, 2013 04:32 pm

    to @dulaurence miller Nikon 55-200mm zoom

    That's why he also says : "Don't buy this lens as your mainstay long lens though - the trade off is that image quality is a train-wreck when shot at anything below f/8."

    Can't have something worth 2000 $ at 256 $ cost. Thanks for reporting it.

  • DuLaurence Miller

    August 20, 2013 01:00 am

    I went to his link to recommended equipment. Great overview with one exception. He touts the Nikon 55-200mm zoom, especially for it's light weight for travel. I ordered it, and it is definitely a $256 telephoto lens, as in it's only worth that price. I did a series of direct comparison shots at different focal lengths between it and my 70-300mm Nikon VR. HUGE difference. Sent it back.

  • M.Kort

    August 11, 2013 08:30 pm

    Here is my latest vertical landscape on 500px:

    [eimg url='http://500px.com/photo/42854698' title='42854698']

  • M.Kort

    August 11, 2013 08:28 pm

    Here is a recent vertical landscape shot of me on 500px.

    Some wheat field.
    [eimg url='http://500px.com/photo/42854698' title='42854698']

  • Jim the Photographer

    August 11, 2013 07:20 am

    I purchased Todd's new e-book and am presently studying it. It has a lot of good information. I've shot landscapes in portrait mode. I especially do it when I want to highlight the sky. It works.

    As to shooting portraits in landscape mode (as a comment suggested) I've done that too. When done properly it works too!

  • vipul vaibhav

    August 10, 2013 04:26 am

    One of my favourites. I too love to click vertical landscapes.

    Some of my shots :
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/vipulvaibhav/8564747837/

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=562137940511007&set=a.445811345477001.104702.445266022198200&type=1&theater

  • marius2die4

    August 9, 2013 03:51 pm

    I believe that each format (vertical or orizontal) has advantages for different ideas. You get an idea of you want to do and trying to accomplish as better.

    Some of my picture:
    https://marius-fotografie.blogspot.com

  • Rodney

    August 9, 2013 12:33 pm

    Love this article. What you said are absolutely true. I for one always ended up taking more vertical pictures than horizontal because I always find that those shots almost always turned out more `powerful' especially after I got hold of my super wide angle lens. I have constantly remind myself to shot horizontal for every scene that I am capturing. Still lots to learn but it is an adventure that allows me to keep my sanity in the mad mad rat race corporate world. Thanks for the tips and the pictures look absolutely stunning. Just wish that I could get to that level someday. Till then, I am not giving up. I have been relocated to Beijing China for a couple of years and taking time to travel as much as I possibly can to see what this great country has to offer. I have a page in Facebook dedicated to my travels. It's called `Laowai in China.' All are welcome to visit and hopefully, I could provide some insight of the stunning scenes of this country. Meanwhile, comments are always welcome in my travelling and photography blog at http://mynikonni.blogspot.com. Cheers everyone.

  • Todd Sisson

    August 9, 2013 09:01 am

    Crikey! what a great response - looks like I'm not the only one out there neglecting the verts!

    I like @pocotello photography's pointer too - I shoot panos in vertical and often pluck one or two frames out of the sequence, a double win!

    Don't forget to check out the ebook if you want some pointers on shooting panoramics - there's a chapter on that in there:

    http://digital-photography-school.com/landscapes

  • Yacko

    August 9, 2013 08:05 am

    If one doesn't have a true wide lens but a more common "near" wide lens which would be something in the 24-30 mm range, you can still shoot wide verticals by being a contrarian. Just as you can shoot a horizontal panoramic by stitching together a series of VERTICAL shots, you can also shoot a vertical panorama by shooting a series of LANDSCAPE shots from low to high and stitching them with PShop or similar.

  • Paul Plak

    August 9, 2013 06:41 am

    Yes, having extra grip and a second shutter release (like on Nikon D3S and D4) makes vertical format so much more natural and easy to take.
    And vertical is an easy way to get extra depth and perspective into your frame.

  • Barry E Warren

    August 9, 2013 03:48 am

    This is great stuff. I've been shooting mostly horizontal on landscapes. When I go out this afternoon to shoot the dam and covered bridge at the waterworks, I will use vertical. Thanks

  • Mridula

    August 9, 2013 03:15 am

    I thoroughly enjoyed your pictures and tips. And while I am buying gear let me go and hunt for that L Bracket too.

    http://blogs.gonomad.com/traveltalesfromindia/

  • Cheryl Garrity

    August 9, 2013 02:46 am

    Beautiful photographs!!!

    You have helped me in a number of ways. You have reminded me of the value of shooting verticals. Also you have refreshed my memory on how to create good verticals. I just looked on my new webpage and discovered that I have only about 20 % of my photos at verticals.

    I am also planning to purchase a better tripod and you note about getting down low is a good reminder.

    Thank you!

  • John

    August 9, 2013 01:43 am

    Geoff's comment are off-the-wall. I always shoot both horizontal and vertical landscapes, just as I make a monochrome image file for any image on which I spend any significant time editing. One really never know which format or color option will be best. I'm planning on purchasing a battery grip to make vertical shots easier.

  • Carlos Comesanas

    August 9, 2013 01:39 am

    I remember an article I read many years ago where a woman, editor I believe from the National Geographic, said that she constantly had to be remaining her photographers that the camera could be turned sideways and still take pictures.

  • Mark G

    August 9, 2013 01:26 am

    A big thank you for this advise I'm going to outer Mongolian later this year and have been looking for some good advice on landscapes, this was so helpful can't wait to get there and start shooting.

  • Geoff

    August 9, 2013 01:24 am

    In other words, if you want to shoot interesting landscapes don't shoot 'landscape' format but 'portrait'.
    I can see the next article approaching from over the horizon... 'If you want to shoot interesting portraits don't use 'portrait' format.....
    How about square shaped images?

  • tre

    August 8, 2013 10:40 pm

    looks like you have done some hyperfocal shots here...maybe?

    i don't see that mentioned in the article - for vertical landscape shots it's a very important technique to keep in mind

    nice pics and article, thanks

  • Pocatello Photography, Cramer Imaging

    August 8, 2013 11:50 am

    Another point that I read about is that, if you want to shoot a panorama, shooting vertical is the way to go. Sometimes you can luck into a great shot that way. I have gotten a couple excellent shots out of a failed panorama before.

  • ScottC

    August 8, 2013 09:10 am

    I went thru my scapes and realized that I never do this, great advice that I can use! Thanks!

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/lendog64/sets/72157632350847680/

  • Brian Fuller

    August 8, 2013 07:31 am

    I like tips #1 & #3

    Flickr:
    http://bit.ly/oufr4c

  • Clyde McCorkle

    August 8, 2013 05:16 am

    This is all really good advise. It reminds me of a tip I saw in another article earlier this year, I want to say it was about portrait work perhaps, but it talked about how you should mix vertical with horizontal shots. One of the tips I remember most is this, and I'm paraphrasing perhaps, "When is the best time to shoot a vertical shot? Right after you shoot a horizontal". You should always shoot with purpose but if you aren't sure which layout is better, take both.

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